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Romeo3Max failures on Shadow 2


-JCN-
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Public service announcement: 

 

I had two Shadow 2 slides milled for the Romeo3Max and had three optics fail already. 
 

The first lens cracked in two places at 10 and 2 o’clock within 500 rounds. First symptom was chasing the zero. 
 

The second and third both started losing about 4 clicks of elevation every 250 rounds until it was completely out of adjustment ability. When removed, the optic base had a slight curve to it that it didn’t have before. 
 

The milling I had through Primary Machine didn’t use a supporting plate underneath. The marks on the base are narrow and only contact the flimsy sealing plate and not the frame of the optic. My hypothesis is that it needs a supporting plate. 
 

But it could be that the pockets are too tight and the optic is under tension. 
 

Primary Machine hasn’t heard of anyone else having issues, so if you’ve noticed this... please post to this thread. Or watch for it happening. 
 

I normally shoot 400-500 rounds per practice, so I’m not sure if it fails with high volume and is fine in limited use. Or if I just have really bad luck!
 

 

27E00216-0D18-47C1-BC0C-8D06775A91EA.jpeg

Edited by -JCN-
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What's the torque you put on the screws?

There is a theory that these all metal guns wear extremely hard on red dots when you cut the slide and put the dot directly on the slide.  The theory is that if you put an aluminium or plastic plate/shim between the slide and the dot, the dot life is increased significantly. 

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On 3/13/2020 at 4:15 PM, -JCN- said:

Public service announcement: 

 

I had two Shadow 2 slides milled for the Romeo3Max and had three optics fail already. 
 

The first lens cracked in two places at 10 and 2 o’clock within 500 rounds. First symptom was chasing the zero. 
 

The second and third both started losing about 4 clicks of elevation every 250 rounds until it was completely out of adjustment ability. When removed, the optic base had a slight curve to it that it didn’t have before. 
 

The milling I had through Primary Machine didn’t use a supporting plate underneath. The marks on the base are narrow and only contact the flimsy sealing plate and not the frame of the optic. My hypothesis is that it needs a supporting plate. 
 

But it could be that the pockets are too tight and the optic is under tension. 
 

Primary Machine hasn’t heard of anyone else having issues, so if you’ve noticed this... please post to this thread. Or watch for it happening. 
 

I normally shoot 400-500 rounds per practice, so I’m not sure if it fails with high volume and is fine in limited use. Or if I just have really bad luck!
 

 

27E00216-0D18-47C1-BC0C-8D06775A91EA.jpeg

 

Can you add photos of the slide that the for came from? 
Is the slide milled in such a way that the optic is a snug fit (front and back) when set on the slide?
I have a shadow2 milled and a R3Max on it for all of 4 weeks now. Has about 1k rounds on it now. 
You have me thinking.  

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With that much wear evident on the BOTTOM of the optic it was clearly not tightly secured to the slide. If any red dot is allowed to smack around on top of a slide because its loosely mounted it will fail a lot sooner than one that is secured properly.

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On 4/29/2020 at 10:07 AM, CHA-LEE said:

With that much wear evident on the BOTTOM of the optic it was clearly not tightly secured to the slide. If any red dot is allowed to smack around on top of a slide because its loosely mounted it will fail a lot sooner than one that is secured properly.


It’s actually the opposite. It was a Primary Machine custom fit pocket and was probably a combination of it being squeezed in there and not having a lower plate. My RSA may have been getting tired, so I’m sure that didn’t help. 

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As above I have had Max3's fail to hold windage (the adjustment screw rotates towards the 'left' direction as you shoot) on slide mounts.  I suspect the internal detents get bashed up and stop holding like they should, but this isn't OP's problem where it moves permanently. 

 

The Max's been great on frame mounts.

 

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5 minutes ago, shred said:

As above I have had Max3's fail to hold windage (the adjustment screw rotates towards the 'left' direction as you shoot) on slide mounts.  I suspect the internal detents get bashed up and stop holding like they should, but this isn't OP's problem where it moves permanently. 

 

The Max's been great on frame mounts.

 

I guess nail polish on the adjustment screw won't help holding zero if it's an internal issue?

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3 hours ago, -JCN- said:


It’s actually the opposite. It was a Primary Machine custom fit pocket and was probably a combination of it being squeezed in there and not having a lower plate. My RSA may have been getting tired, so I’m sure that didn’t help. 

 

If a sight is securely mounted to a slide you will NOT get a wear pattern on the bottom like shown in your pictures. Your picture shows a definitive wear pattern on the bottom in the exact location where it touches the top of the slide. That sight was shifting around on top of the slide as you shot.

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8 hours ago, shred said:

As above I have had Max3's fail to hold windage (the adjustment screw rotates towards the 'left' direction as you shoot) on slide mounts.  I suspect the internal detents get bashed up and stop holding like they should, but this isn't OP's problem where it moves permanently. 

 

The Max's been great on frame mounts.

 


the failure to hold windage is caused by a loose set screw. It’s a simple fix if you are comfortable taking the bottom plate off. The set screw is directly under the windage screw and just needs to be snugged up. 

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4 hours ago, Rich406 said:


the failure to hold windage is caused by a loose set screw. It’s a simple fix if you are comfortable taking the bottom plate off. The set screw is directly under the windage screw and just needs to be snugged up. 


I just ship them back to SIG for warrantee replacement, but good to know.

 

12 hours ago, Dazhi said:

I guess nail polish on the adjustment screw won't help holding zero if it's an internal issue?

It probably would, but I don't want to rely on it.  I had old C-More STS (3 of them) that broke so many times they refused to fix them that I zeroed one and then filled it with superglue.  Held up fine on my Modified gun after that.

 

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On 3/13/2020 at 8:59 PM, Dazhi said:

What's the torque you put on the screws?

There is a theory that these all metal guns wear extremely hard on red dots when you cut the slide and put the dot directly on the slide.  The theory is that if you put an aluminium or plastic plate/shim between the slide and the dot, the dot life is increased significantly. 

 

That's not a theory.  That's a guess that happens when correlation is confused with causation.

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19 hours ago, Rich406 said:


the failure to hold windage is caused by a loose set screw. It’s a simple fix if you are comfortable taking the bottom plate off. The set screw is directly under the windage screw and just needs to be snugged up. 

Hi Rich406...if you take the bottom plate off is there also a set screw for the elevation screw and where is it located?, is it just as easy to get at as the set screw for the windage?....I already know about the set screw underneath to snug up for the windage ...thanks

Edited by race1911
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3 hours ago, race1911 said:

Hi Rich406...if you take the bottom plate off is there also a set screw for the elevation screw and where is it located?, is it just as easy to get at as the set screw for the windage?....I already know about the set screw underneath to snug up for the windage ...

 

 

I’ve never had problems with the elevation. The set screw for the elevation isn’t easily accessible if you take the cover off. I believe the led emitter is in the way.

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