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I've been a big fan of Accurate Arms #7 (AA7) for the last couple of years and have gone through quite a few 8# jugs of it for my 9 major open guns. It's always been on the dirty side compared to the VV powders, but not to the point that it caused me problems. I just opened a newer jug (2019 lot) and it is dirty enough to cause all kinds of malfunctions in my Chaos. My CK guns run without complaints with same loads, but they are not as tight fit as the Atlas.

 

All the talk about Shooters World Major Pistol (SWMP) has intrigued me, but I didn't have a reason to try it until now. Plus, everything I've read points to it being a clone of AA7. Is it really any different? At the very least, it's manufactured at a different location than AA7. With the problems I've had with the latest batch of AA7, I decided to try SWMP - first 8# of SWMP arrived yesterday. 

 

Observations:

  • SWMP looks very much like AA7 - see pic below.
  • SWMP is same density as AA7. I swapped out AA7 for SWMP in my 1050 and previous 10.7 grain charge with AA7 was still exactly 10.7 grains with SWMP.
  • SWMP (at least the lots I am comparing) is a little slower than AA7. Side by side testing with 2 guns showed 13-14fps less (10-shot averages) with SWMP compared to otherwise identical AA7 loads. ES & SD were similar between the 2 powders, with the edge going to AA7.
  • Primers read similar pressures between these two. Maybe slightly less on the SWMP, but they were less velocity as well.
  • No difference observed in dot movement or shot impulse.
  • Burned powder smelled a little different than AA7

 

From what I saw on the chrono, I upped my SWMP load up to 10.9 grains. This should get me 170-172PF across all my open guns.

(MG115JHP @ 1.165 OAL, CCI500, SWMP 10.9 grains)

 

powder compare.jpg

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Trying video taping your blasters under recoil in slowly motion, you will definitely see the difference in slide movement.. SW has a flatter recoil. 

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Hoping so since that's my reason for trying it.

I have a few hundred rounds loaded ready for a clean gun test. It should be pretty obvious if its cleaner than my current batch of AA7.

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22 minutes ago, racer-x said:

Hoping so since that's my reason for trying it.

I have a few hundred rounds loaded ready for a clean gun test. It should be pretty obvious if its cleaner than my current batch of AA7.

Any chance you have lot numbers of that 2019 AA7?

 

I'm sitting on 16 lbs

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I'll paraphrase something posted in these forums by someone who seems to know what he is talking about.  According to him, AA 2,5, 7 and 9 were originally manufactured overseas for Accurate by Lovex.  Accurate subsequently moved production to the USA.  Lovex is manufacturing the same propellants and selling them under the Shooters World brand name.  I've never used AA7 so I cannot comment on its cleanliness.  Major Pistol powder is clean in my 10.2gr major loads, but not as clean as 7.0gr 3N38 is in my minor loads.

 

FWIW I use Weapon Shield CLP as my lubricant.  Residue wipes right off.  I also use their solvent for cleaning.  Everything seems to stay cleaner since I started using them.

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1 hour ago, zzt said:

AA 2,5, 7 and 9 were originally manufactured overseas for Accurate by Lovex.  Accurate subsequently moved production to the USA.  Lovex is manufacturing the same propellants and selling them under the Shooters World brand name. 

this has been confirmed by both SW  and Western representatives. 

same formula different factories.

Edited by AHI
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1 hour ago, zzt said:

I'll paraphrase something posted in these forums by someone who seems to know what he is talking about.  According to him, AA 2,5, 7 and 9 were originally manufactured overseas for Accurate by Lovex.  Accurate subsequently moved production to the USA.  Lovex is manufacturing the same propellants and selling them under the Shooters World brand name.  I've never used AA7 so I cannot comment on its cleanliness.  Major Pistol powder is clean in my 10.2gr major loads, but not as clean as 7.0gr 3N38 is in my minor loads.

 

FWIW I use Weapon Shield CLP as my lubricant.  Residue wipes right off.  I also use their solvent for cleaning.  Everything seems to stay cleaner since I started using them.

 

They also have another powder that might be worth investigating for Minor loads called Ultimate Pistol (Lovex DO36-07). Supposedly a tad slower than Clean Shot (formerly AA No 2) but still in a pretty good/low charge range.😉

Edited by K-Texas
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2 hours ago, zombywoof said:

Any chance you have lot numbers of that 2019 AA7?

 

I'm sitting on 16 lbs

I'll post that tonight.

I already looked on the new SWMP package and couldn't determine the lot number. Were some smudged numbers on label, but not legible.

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The 8# AA7 I'm having so much trouble with is has a small white label on it marked 2042 and 191818 (presuming the latter is the production date).

So this would have been released in 2018, not 2019 like I was thinking.

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2 hours ago, racer-x said:

The 8# AA7 I'm having so much trouble with is has a small white label on it marked 2042 and 191818 (presuming the latter is the production date).

So this would have been released in 2018, not 2019 like I was thinking.

My current jug is marked 2044 040319 and I'm not having any trouble with it.

 

My unopened jug is 2047 100819, this was received in late 2019.

 

I'm guessing mine were produced after yours

Edited by zombywoof
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Here is what my gun looks like after starting out clean and shooting 100 rounds of SWMP (MG115JHP @ 1.165 OAL, CCI500, SWMP 10.9 grains).

Better than my current batch of AA7... still on the dirty side though.

This chrono'd at 170.4 PF with ES & SD much better than the 10.7 grain load. Might try taking the charge up another notch to get 173-175 PF and see if it cleans up at all.

 

IMG_6196.jpg

IMG_6197.jpg

IMG_6199.jpg

IMG_6200.jpg

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20 hours ago, chevrofreak said:

That natoreloading site says it is one of the cleaner powders they have tried. 

 

Just read that glowing post... wow.

By 'clean', they are posting pictures of insides of empty brass! My spent brass is very clean as well when I pick it up.

 

It's the inside of my guns that I'm interested in staying clean though.

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1 hour ago, racer-x said:

t's the inside of my guns that I'm interested in staying clean though.

 

I think you are running your gun too wet.  I lube the rails and bearing surfaces and the outside of the barrel.  I get none of the debris you show, unless I run it wetter AND lube the chamber and the barrel.  Even then it is no where near as bad as you show, even after a 250 round match.

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I quit using LOVEX powders because of the issues you are having.

dont know there definition of clean  but its different than mine.

Will add that in my testing the USA manufacture AA#7 leaves a lot less residue in the guns

and more consistent lot to lot,   Just my opinion others may very.

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1 hour ago, zzt said:

 

I think you are running your gun too wet.  I lube the rails and bearing surfaces and the outside of the barrel.  I get none of the debris you show, unless I run it wetter AND lube the chamber and the barrel.  Even then it is no where near as bad as you show, even after a 250 round match.

 

Interesting.

I use 2 drops per slide rail (apply at back of slide & let run down inside of each rail) .

1 drop on barrel by comp and spread around (no oil on ramp or chamber).

1 drop in barrel link cutout

1 drop on top of disconnector

 

Valvoline Synpower oil in 0-20 when its cold & 5-30 when its hot.

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10 minutes ago, racer-x said:

Valvoline Synpower oil in 0-20 when its cold & 5-30 when its hot.

 

Try a different lube and see what happens.

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Search the forum for 'CORNMEAL' and you'll see this has been an ongoing issue with several powders, primarily AA7, Vit 3n37 & 3n38, and since it's introduction SWMP (not to be confused with SWMBO).

 

Nolan

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5 hours ago, racer-x said:

 

Interesting.

I use 2 drops per slide rail (apply at back of slide & let run down inside of each rail) .

1 drop on barrel by comp and spread around (no oil on ramp or chamber).

1 drop in barrel link cutout

1 drop on top of disconnector

 

Valvoline Synpower oil in 0-20 when its cold & 5-30 when its hot.

Ditch the oil and get yourself some Lubriplate SFL-0 or SFL-00.   These greases are non-polar, so thwy wont attract the gunk.   They are also very thin and perform like oil. 

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Just put another 200 rounds through gun with similar results - lots of unburnt powder everywhere. Compared to 200 rounds of most recent dirty lot of AA7 - same.

For grins, I cleaned & lubed both guns with about 1/2 the quantity as normal of a thicker oil 5-30 (instead of 0-20).

 

This isn't a lube issue - its a bunch unburnt powder circulating through my guns. 

Pressures are high but not crazy as indicated by slightly flattened primers. I tried magnum primers and that was worse... guessing the magnums were enough extra umph to spit the bullet out of the case before pressures spiked and sealed the case to chamber? Every couple of shots with SPM's I get a little blowback around case into my face.  

 

2 years running AA7 (6x 8# containers) with same load & guns. Never this issue until last lot. Now finding similar problem with SWMP.

I see posts in other threads on super dirty batch of SWMP, but that's a different lot than mine. Seems this is more than just one bad lot...

 

I loaded up some of my old True Blue loads and see how I like that - been quite a while since I ran TB. Maybe I'll like it again?

Not as slow as AA7 & SWMP, but always very clean.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I was going back and forth between the 2. I experienced the same unburt powder using the SWM. Someone on another thread advised of a tighter crimp which I tried and that did help out but I only ran 20 rounds through it so it may not have been the best case study. Although previously 20 rounds would have left the gun with more powder than your showing in those pictures. I would feel more comfortable saying it fully solved the problem if I ran an entire match with that load of SWM. I am waiting for a case of PD bullets to get here now and will be working up more of the SWM loads and try to compare during a match.

 

I do feel in my other test runs that it does feel somewhat flatter than AA7. I am running 10.2 grains of SWM at 1.165 OAL under a 124gn JHP from Precision Delta. 170 PF and MUCH lower SD than AA7.

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