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Shadow 2 stove pipes. Need heavier or lighter recoil spring?


Lucreau
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Got my S2 slide back from getting cut up for CO. Running an 11lb recoil spring. Got maybe 5 stove pipes in 400 rounds today. Would I need a lighter recoil spring?? Or a heavier spring to give the case more time to extract 

949523DB-256D-4270-A9A3-8C768863841D.jpeg

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52 minutes ago, zzt said:

Lighter.  You likely added more weight to the slide with the dot than was removed during milling.  Try a 10 lb.

I’ll give that a try, thanks!

20 minutes ago, TrackCage said:

Did this same load work without malfunctions before the gun was milled?

I hadn’t even shot it yet. Got it in and shipped it out 

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14 minutes ago, Lucreau said:

I’ll give that a try, thanks!

I hadn’t even shot it yet. Got it in and shipped it out 

I'd want to know it was a known, good load (meets PF, doesn't malfunction in other guns, etc.) before I started chasing my tail with the gun. A recoil spring is easy enough to change, but I wouldn't completely dismiss ammo until you confirm it works.

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1 minute ago, TrackCage said:

I'd want to know it was a known, good load (meets PF, doesn't malfunction in other guns, etc.) before I started chasing my tail with the gun. A recoil spring is easy enough to change, but I wouldn't completely dismiss ammo until you confirm it works.

Ammo is magtech 124gr 9mm. I gave up hand loads once I got out of open. 
I have also read a few instances where an extra power extractor spring worked for a few others having the same issue. Going to give that a try first before the recoil spring 

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You need a lighter recoil spring to allow the slide to fully open.  A heavier spring will return the slide to battery faster or not fully open with the ammo you are using which would trap the brass in the ejection port.

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7 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

Swapping recoil springs to fix an extraction issue isn't the best strategy. Fix the extraction issue.

i.e an extra power extractor spring? Have inspected the extractor and from what I can see it is all in order. Clean, no damage etc

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1 minute ago, Lucreau said:

i.e an extra power extractor spring? Have inspected the extractor and from what I can see it is all in order. Clean, no damage etc

 

Extractor depth and pinch force needs to be tuned just like any other gun. You say that you "inspected" the extractor, what did you inspect? Unless you have the manufactures blue print drawing of the extractor to verify it was actually made correctly, I am not sure what you are going to "inspect" by looking at the extractor with a naked eye other than obvious damage.

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Any level of anemic extraction with the red dot sight right behind the chamber is going to result in the case deflecting off of the sight back into the chamber area. You can verify this by taking the sight off the gun and shoot it. Do the stove pipes continue? What is the extraction consistency and trajectory of the empty cases? Video that stuff in slow motion with your cell phone.

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I am having the same issue with my STI 40.  Went from a coated bullet to a plated without changing my powder charge or chronographing because it was cold out. Suspect they are underpowered now.  Some idiot loaded 5000 of them before shooting any 😩😩

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10 minutes ago, Lucreau said:

Another thing I am now considering is the factory shock buff. With it in, the breech face opens juuuuust enough for a case to eject. Possibly removing that will help too

With the thicker 3,5mm buffer the stroke is the same as the old SP-01 Shadows without any buffer. But it can effect extraction.

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16 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

 

Extractor depth and pinch force needs to be tuned just like any other gun. You say that you "inspected" the extractor, what did you inspect? Unless you have the manufactures blue print drawing of the extractor to verify it was actually made correctly, I am not sure what you are going to "inspect" by looking at the extractor with a naked eye other than obvious damage.

 

 

I've experienced this same level of extraction issue (with the case sitting in the same spot as the picture) using a 12lb recoil spring, new extractor and new spring. This is on a non-optic shadow 2 however.

 

Under recoil, I've noticed very inconsistent ejection patterns with some going about 6' to my 3-oclock, and others dribbling out of the gun. This could be attributed to not having a good locked out grip but I've also shot this same load with a completely different gun (Beretta M9) and the ejection pattern is consistent enough I could probably put a bucket out to catch the cases. So it's odd to me...

 

My one question Charlie.. on a 1911/2011, I know you can tune the extractor. But on a Shadow, I can't for the life of me think of where to even start that process. Any thoughts on this?

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52 minutes ago, robertwyatt said:

 

 

I've experienced this same level of extraction issue (with the case sitting in the same spot as the picture) using a 12lb recoil spring, new extractor and new spring. This is on a non-optic shadow 2 however.

 

Under recoil, I've noticed very inconsistent ejection patterns with some going about 6' to my 3-oclock, and others dribbling out of the gun. This could be attributed to not having a good locked out grip but I've also shot this same load with a completely different gun (Beretta M9) and the ejection pattern is consistent enough I could probably put a bucket out to catch the cases. So it's odd to me...

 

My one question Charlie.. on a 1911/2011, I know you can tune the extractor. But on a Shadow, I can't for the life of me think of where to even start that process. Any thoughts on this?

 

The extractor pinch depth is tuned by removing material from the "Bump" behind the extractor hook. You want enough pinch depth to cause the extractor to deflect slightly when a case is pushed under the extractor hook. The pinch force is tuned by using different weight extractor springs. When I was shooting EAA/Tanfo guns the stock extractor spring would last about 10K before getting too weak to extract reliably. Especially on 9mm where the rim of the case is much smaller. I switched to Wolff extra power extractor springs and this dramatically improved extraction reliability and the spring would last 50K or more.

 

If the extractor has been tuned to the proper pinch depth and force you should be able to take a fully loaded round and a stripped slide then push the rim of the case up against the breach face in the "Firing" position. The round should be held up against the breach face by the extractor and you should be able to tap the slide down onto the table without the round dislodging. The tapping force needed is about the same you would use to knock on a door.

 

I am sure all of this has already been covered for CZ platform guns here on this forum somewhere.

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4 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

I am sure all of this has already been covered for CZ platform guns here on this forum somewhere.

 

I'm certain you're right. I don't follow Enos much and only saw (this) posts by coincidence. Truthfully, I never even thought to ask that kind of question. Thanks for the information though!

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38 minutes ago, Lior said:

Thanks for the update Lucreau.

Now another question on the subject - how does one effectively clean the extractor without unmounting the red dot et al.?

 

You don't!

 

The extractor is held in place by a pin, which is usually directly under the position of the RDS.  

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On 3/16/2020 at 9:40 AM, Lucreau said:

Quick update. Swapped the thicker shock buff For the thinner one, and had zero issues at my match. Got a few springs on standby but as of now she runs 


Awesome. I'm kind of surprised you're running a buff. Have you shot it without and compared to a spring only? 

I've never had to do any of the ultra detailed 2011 style tuning on any of my CZ's. Seems like when an issue pops up it's usually due to an extra part. 

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