Grayguns Compentition Kit plus Apex Trigger Bar Question

[gregj529]

I did a fair bit of googling on this and didn't have much luck.  Do any of you know if you can install both the gray guns competition trigger kit and the apex trigger bar?  I have the gray guns competition trigger kit installed already.  I've read that the Apex trigger bar removes some of the take up.   I guess I'm curious if anyone has both installed, if it works, and what their opinion is on this.  Thanks!

[ddc]

I tried it some time ago right after the GG kit came out. 

I did not like the combination.

As I recall it changed a fairly smooth trigger pull into a rather glitchy trigger pull.

It was long enough ago that my memory is hazy but I recall disliking it enough that I took it out after about 5 minutes of dry fire.

I did not try to debug it as I was happy enough with the GG kit.

One of the other members here has it now and was going to do some comparison testing with it as well as some of the other options and combinations like this.

I don't think he's got around to that yet.

 

[gregj529]

This is good to know.  I like my GG trigger kit a lot more than the stock.  I have a pre-Legion X5.  This was a pretty huge upgrade.  Thanks again for the responnse.

[ddc]

You bet.

I agree the GG kit made a big difference.

I do think there have been those who liked the combination with the Apex bar though. 

There are several threads over on www.sigtalk.com on the X5 trigger and a bunch of the options/combinations.

That would be a good place to check if you haven't already.

[DirectDrive]

8 hours ago, gaj529 said:

I did a fair bit of googling on this and didn't have much luck.  Do any of you know if you can install both the gray guns competition trigger kit and the apex trigger bar?  I have the gray guns competition trigger kit installed already.  I've read that the Apex trigger bar removes some of the take up.   I guess I'm curious if anyone has both installed, if it works, and what their opinion is on this.  Thanks!

Don't count on the Apex bar to remove take-up.

If you want to remove take-up you will want to consider either the Keres adjustable or the Armory Craft adjustable triggers.

With these triggers you can "dial in" exactly what you want for take-up and over-travel.

 

Here's my "recipe" and how it progressed, starting with a P320F that arrived with a trigger pulling at 4lbs measured with a Lyman digital :

 

Added Apex bar and over-travel bushing. Removed 1lb of pull weight and nothing other than that.

Added Keres adjustable trigger. Removed 8oz of pull weight and ability to adjust fore and aft was phenomenal.

So now we are at around 2lbs-8oz pull weight.

Added Gray Guns sear and spring kit. Reduced pull weight by another 10oz and removed the "creep" that I couldn't get rid of otherwise.

 

So there's not much left of the original P320F and pull weight is under 2lbs.

This is a range gun and it has the best striker trigger that I have ever pulled.

 

Ignore any "Legion Geometry" comments.

The above exceeds anything like that.

A big plus for me was that my garden variety, bone stock P320F had such a light pull to begin with.

 

Edit:

The over-travel bushing that came with the Apex bar could have been taken out after adding the Keres trigger.

However, I'm glad I left it in as I didn't have to move the Keres set screw very far to achieve my desired over-travel.

I'm a fan of not monkeying with the adjustment screws any more than needed. 

The Keres screws are "stiff" and I would expect them to have no problem holding their settings.

[bimmer1980]

I tried the apex kit with the Apex Triggers (both, curved and straight) greyguns Pin, Sear and springs.

The Apex trigger won´t fire with the greyguns overtravel sleeve. It will with the Apex overtravel sleeve.

 

With the greyguns sear i get a scratchy but lighter triggerpull. (Under 3lb) Don´t know why it felt that scratchy.

 

So i left the GG Pin and springs in there but used the original sear with the complete apex kit. 

 

It gives me pretty short 1,6 to 1,7 KG Triggerpull with the curved Trigger. (3lb 10oz?) With shorter reset and a pretty short overall travel. The straight trigger gets the weight down a bit more, but i like the curved.

 

I´ll try to combine the GG kit with the Aromory craft Trigger, when it arrives. I like the low weight of the GG Kit but i like the shorter overall travel and the shorter reset of the apex kit too.

As i´m not allowed to go under 3lb in IPSC i´ll leave it for now.

[gregj529]

Thanks for all of the great information. 

[DirectDrive]

3 hours ago, bimmer1980 said:

I tried the apex kit with the Apex Triggers (both, curved and straight) greyguns Pin, Sear and springs.

The Apex trigger won´t fire with the greyguns overtravel sleeve. It will with the Apex overtravel sleeve.

 

With the greyguns sear i get a scratchy but lighter triggerpull. (Under 3lb) Don´t know why it felt that scratchy.

 

So i left the GG Pin and springs in there but used the original sear with the complete apex kit. 

 

It gives me pretty short 1,6 to 1,7 KG Triggerpull with the curved Trigger. (3lb 10oz?) With shorter reset and a pretty short overall travel. The straight trigger gets the weight down a bit more, but i like the curved.

 

I´ll try to combine the GG kit with the Aromory craft Trigger, when it arrives. I like the low weight of the GG Kit but i like the shorter overall travel and the shorter reset of the apex kit too.

As i´m not allowed to go under 3lb in IPSC i´ll leave it for now.

With your Gray Guns sear installed, I would be tempted to try a different striker.

 

My results were so positive with the GG sear kit, I'd hate to see a fellow shooter give up on it.

 

When communicating with Gray Guns CS, be sure to check your junk email box.

IME, GG correspondence sometimes ends up there.

 

 

 

 

[gregj529]

I agree with DirectDrive.  My pull is as smooth as I could ever want.  I was just curious about removing some of the take up.   That was my only "complaint" and I use that term very loosely.

[bimmer1980]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2020 at 2:21 PM, DirectDrive said:

With your Gray Guns sear installed, I would be tempted to try a different striker.

 

My results were so positive with the GG sear kit, I'd hate to see a fellow shooter give up on it.

 

When communicating with Gray Guns CS, be sure to check your junk email box.

IME, GG correspondence sometimes ends up there.

 

 

 

 

You mean, try another stock striker ?

[DirectDrive]

1 hour ago, bimmer1980 said:

You mean, try another stock striker ?

Yes.

Maybe you can try a different slide and let your GG sear interface with a different striker lug.

If the scratchiness persists, then there is something wrong with the GG kit.

Edited March 9, 2020 by DirectDrive

[wdfwguy]

Does GG sell just the sear and springs as a standalone?

[earlan357]

While not with the full GG kit, here's some before/after showing the effects of the Apex bar.

This P320 has the voluntary upgrad trigger.

Green = Trigger at Forward/Rest Position
Yellow = Wall/Reset Point
Red = Trigger Fully To The Rear

The distance from Green to Yellow is the pre-travel or slack.
The distance from Yellow to Red is the reset distance.
Unfortunately, I didn't have an accurate way to measure over-travel.

Note: On the OEM and GrayGuns triggers with the Apex FS Trigger Bar, I couldn't use the over-travel stop tube. It prevented the triggers from moving back enough to release the striker. The additional over-travel is why the reset distance is so long but the break itself is crisper.

My weights for reference:
OEM: 7lb 8oz
Apex: 5lb 5oz
Apex w/ trigger bar: 5lb 11oz
GG: 5lb 2oz
GG w/ trigger bar : 5lb 10oz

[zhunter]

I am beginning to think pull weight is way less important on the clock than pre and over travel being minimal 

[LMS]

4 hours ago, earlan357 said:

While not with the full GG kit, here's some before/after showing the effects of the Apex bar.
 

 

Thanks for those pictures - awesome visual!

[bimmer1980]

8 hours ago, zhunter said:

I am beginning to think pull weight is way less important on the clock than pre and over travel being minimal 

on the clock, yes, but i bet the scores are better with a lighter trigger  

 

Mine looks like the Picture down right. Overall travel and reset are pretty short.  

[Rolex]

16 hours ago, zhunter said:

I am beginning to think pull weight is way less important on the clock than pre and over travel being minimal 

Absolutely 

[DirectDrive]

On 3/9/2020 at 6:25 AM, wdfwguy said:

Does GG sell just the sear and springs as a standalone?

Unfortunately, no.

[wdfwguy]

Between the Apex trigger br, GG sear and springs, and AC trigger, you're looking at $200 or so

[DirectDrive]

5 hours ago, wdfwguy said:

Between the Apex trigger br, GG sear and springs, and AC trigger, you're looking at $200 or so

Best gamble is GG sear and trigger (over-travel adjustable).

$149

You can't buy just the sear kit, so there you go.

If you try to do it without the GG sear, you won't get that clean, creep-free break (unless you are very lucky).

 

Edit:

WDFW = WA Dept Fish & Wildlife

Edited March 11, 2020 by DirectDrive

[Boomstick303]

Has anyone purchased the new GrayGuns drop in trigger kit the the new adjustable trigger and new "Snappy-reset" trigger bar spring?   If you have what are your opinions?

 

Thanks,

[LMS]

17 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

Has anyone purchased the new GrayGuns drop in trigger kit the the new adjustable trigger and new "Snappy-reset" trigger bar spring?   If you have what are your opinions?

 

Thanks,

 

how new is new?

[Boomstick303]

 

7 minutes ago, LMS said:

 

how new is new?

 

The latest offering on the web site for the drop in kit for the P320.  I guess that the P320 part would have been an important part of the question so the question was clear.  The kit I bought did not come with the two sets of sear springs, the two trigger bar springs, or the adjustable (via set screw) trigger.  I have the drop in trigger kit  just before this latest one.  It came with only one wieght of sear and trigger springs that came with the kit, and no adjustment (set screw) on the trigger.  

[DirectDrive]

1 hour ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

 

The latest offering on the web site for the drop in kit for the P320.  I guess that the P320 part would have been an important part of the question so the question was clear.  The kit I bought did not come with the two sets of sear springs, the two trigger bar springs, or the adjustable (via set screw) trigger.  I have the drop in trigger kit  just before this latest one.  It came with only one wieght of sear and trigger springs that came with the kit, and no adjustment (set screw) on the trigger.  

So you have the $129 kit.

I believe you have the light sear springs and the light trigger bar spring.

Is trigger pull weight too light for you ?

[Boomstick303]

4 hours ago, DirectDrive said:

Is trigger pull weight too light for you ?

 

Not at all.  The trigger is fine.  I think we talked about this before, and I have reached out to Grayguns, and they have yet responded to my questions, or requests.  My triggers over time do not have a crisp break.  Its more of a rolling break, which I think I am ok with.  I would really like the ability to buy just the springs, versus buying a whole new kit for maintenance.  Just trying to understand the differences in the two kits.  I don't really want the adjustable trigger in all honesty.  To many changes to a gun can just make it unreliable, and I am not looking for that.  Just looking for that drop in trigger I can use and not worry about, that also has the ability to perform maintenance.