New 59oz weight limit for Carry Optics, what’s the big difference it will make?

[Racinready300ex]

16 hours ago, motosapiens said:

 

exactly my point. you'll be a small percentage lower shooting minor, but imho it is not accurate to tell someone they simply won't be competitive shooting minor. It would be more accurate to say they will be *less* competitive shooting minor.

 

I'm glad you finally agreed with me. 

 

I think you're better of being up front with it. Sure you can shoot minor but you'll be at a disadvantage to your peers. I'd hate for someone to go out and spend a bunch of money because I lead them to believe minor was practical for Limited only to eventually realize they need to sell that gun and buy another if they want to take the division seriously.

[Racinready300ex]

18 hours ago, usmc1974 said:

What is "G"?  everybody I know that shoots ipsc, IDPA 3 gun what ever, goes to win, and always try to do the best.  it's kind of condescending to think otherwise. I usually found this kind of behavior in people to think too highly of themselves and are wrapped a little too tight. Not pointing any fingers, and I honestly do not want to offend anybody. just saying truth is truth and fact is fact.  People with a class B or C or even  A no matter what they're shooting are NOT going to outshoot GM. A Class B Class and C Class and D shooters are what keeps USPSA funded. Just saying.

 

If everyone you know goes to do there best why would you suggest Minor? They cannot do their best giving up twice as many points for every C they shoot.

 

Condescending? You said "Shoot, have fun, laugh and joke with the gun people around you" I said if you're just there to blast and have fun go for it. I'm responding to your point, and you call me condescending? Not pointing fingers but I think your just trying to defend your choice  to shoot Limited minor and convince guys to follow you down that path. Maybe it's because it'll be easier for you to beat them if their shooting minor against you. I don't know your motivation...

 

Also I never said B class guys would beat GM's. I will say you will not win B class at a Area match shooting minor unless you're sandbagging.  Looking at this area's Area match last year there was one B class limited minor shooter I think that alone is telling. Also no A's, M's or G's shot minor crazy all those guys are dealing with more recoil and more cost when they could be just as competitive shoot minor. Drop down to C class, the guy in 5th shot minor and just shooting major probably would of gained him the 3% he needed to win C class. But yea, it's competitive only dropped in down to 5th lol. There were 4 D class shooters and the winner shot minor. So there you go, you guys are right you can win shooting minor at the very bottom level. Of course based on that finish he probably got bumped to C class and wont fair so well this year  

[usmc1974]

23 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

If everyone you know goes to do there best why would you suggest Minor? They cannot do their best giving up twice as many points for every C they shoot.

 

Condescending? You said "Shoot, have fun, laugh and joke with the gun people around you" I said if you're just there to blast and have fun go for it. I'm responding to your point, and you call me condescending? Not pointing fingers but I think your just trying to defend your choice  to shoot Limited minor and convince guys to follow you down that path. Maybe it's because it'll be easier for you to beat them if their shooting minor against you. I don't know your motivation...

 

Also I never said B class guys would beat GM's. I will say you will not win B class at a Area match shooting minor unless you're sandbagging.  Looking at this area's Area match last year there was one B class limited minor shooter I think that alone is telling. Also no A's, M's or G's shot minor crazy all those guys are dealing with more recoil and more cost when they could be just as competitive shoot minor. Drop down to C class, the guy in 5th shot minor and just shooting major probably would of gained him the 3% he needed to win C class. But yea, it's competitive only dropped in down to 5th lol. There were 4 D class shooters and the winner shot minor. So there you go, you guys are right you can win shooting minor at the very bottom level. Of course based on that finish he probably got bumped to C class and wont fair so well this year  

Yeah, right, whatever, dude!

[Racinready300ex]

22 minutes ago, usmc1974 said:

Yeah, right, whatever, dude!

 

What? I said "not pointing fingers" no different they your post. 

[teros135]

3 hours ago, usmc1974 said:

Yeah, right, whatever, dude!

 

Now that's a pithy reply to a data-filled post!

[usmc1974]

1 hour ago, teros135 said:

 

Now that's a pithy reply to a data-filled post!

Pithy- language or words that are  short and meaningful comment. Thanks for the data.

[Soderquist]

On 3/31/2020 at 8:09 AM, Racinready300ex said:

 

 Someone at your level will consistently beat you if you're shooting minor against their major.

Agree 100%. Major is some "Free Extra Points"

33% extra for every C and 50% more for every D than minor. I'm not saying you get those entire percentages but you get more than you pay for with felt recoil. I shot some Production with Major PF 45 ACP (stock XD) and I found that my mind/body compensated for most of the recoil after a few shots.

That's ok, in USPSA we have room for everybody. If you need free extra points to stay interested the game you can get them. I'm not knocking it, it's quite clever actually. The more people that will play the game the better. 

[HCH]

On 4/1/2020 at 9:37 AM, Racinready300ex said:

 

If everyone you know goes to do there best why would you suggest Minor? They cannot do their best giving up twice as many points for every C they shoot.

 

Condescending? You said "Shoot, have fun, laugh and joke with the gun people around you" I said if you're just there to blast and have fun go for it. I'm responding to your point, and you call me condescending? Not pointing fingers but I think your just trying to defend your choice  to shoot Limited minor and convince guys to follow you down that path. Maybe it's because it'll be easier for you to beat them if their shooting minor against you. I don't know your motivation...

 

Also I never said B class guys would beat GM's. I will say you will not win B class at a Area match shooting minor unless you're sandbagging.  Looking at this area's Area match last year there was one B class limited minor shooter I think that alone is telling. Also no A's, M's or G's shot minor crazy all those guys are dealing with more recoil and more cost when they could be just as competitive shoot minor. Drop down to C class, the guy in 5th shot minor and just shooting major probably would of gained him the 3% he needed to win C class. But yea, it's competitive only dropped in down to 5th lol. There were 4 D class shooters and the winner shot minor. So there you go, you guys are right you can win shooting minor at the very bottom level. Of course based on that finish he probably got bumped to C class and wont fair so well this year  

 

Yup. 3% is 3%, and this game has champions decided over half a percent or less. 

 

What any of this major vs minor debate had to do with 59oz CO guns, I don’t know. 

[Racinready300ex]

7 hours ago, HCH said:

 

Yup. 3% is 3%, and this game has champions decided over half a percent or less. 

 

What any of this major vs minor debate had to do with 59oz CO guns, I don’t know. 

 

Yeah, might be a touch off topic. I don't even remember when we made that turn honestly.

[Racinready300ex]

11 hours ago, HCH said:

 

Yup. 3% is 3%, and this game has champions decided over half a percent or less. 

 

What any of this major vs minor debate had to do with 59oz CO guns, I don’t know. 

 

I'll try to tie it back in. I think in divisions like limited the extra weight of a 50 ish oz gun can help tame the recoil and make the gun a little more stable on tighter shots. That extra weight will also make it harder to stop the gun. Luckily with major scoring if you drop a charlie because you over swing it's not a huge deal. With a minor gun you don't want to drop those charlies, so as guys start pushing 50 oz or more they'll need to really pay attention to how the swing the gun around. it seems like guys get hung up of soft and flat, and splits. When really transitions are more important. Yet that is a skill that gets neglected by many. If you're sporting a 56 oz gun and not working on your transitions I think the weight might hold you back more then it helps.  

 

I think the guys that are training regularly will probably be good with either set up and it wont really matter. I've shot a lot of IDPA with 43 oz guns, and SS major with the same, most of my time in limited I used guns in the mid 40's too. I'm not going to add anything to my CO gun because of this rule change I don't think it'll matter. I'll just spend a bunch of money that could of been used on bullets. 

[eric4069]

On 3/27/2020 at 1:06 PM, cheby said:

59 Oz weight limit means that we no longer need to worry about any weight restriction. Just get any gun you like and it will be within the limit. 

Yep , probably they made that change so we could avoid all those complaints from those using guns a little too heavy for prior rules. 
So what will people complain about now???

[Racinready300ex]

23 minutes ago, eric4069 said:

Yep , probably they made that change so we could avoid all those complaints from those using guns a little too heavy for prior rules. 
So what will people complain about now???

 

I'd complain about spending a much of money milling a slide making my gun less reliable and now probably worth less only to have them change the rules. But, I didn't do any of that to my gun so I don't have to complain. lol.

 

Could of been worse, could of went the other way and made more guns illegal. IDPA did that to me once made both of my 1200 dollar guns illegal. I didn't shoot IDPA again for years. 

[Limitless13]

I think this change is really interesting. It seems to widen the gap further between some of the poly guns steel frame da/sa's. The Sig Legion seems to be the only gun that crosses the barrier (that I can think of). It'll be interesting to see what kind of adjustments people start making in order to bring the weight of their gun up. Things like internal frame weights, tungsten barrels, and other random craziness. 

[Racinready300ex]

7 minutes ago, Limitless13 said:

I think this change is really interesting. It seems to widen the gap further between some of the poly guns steel frame da/sa's. The Sig Legion seems to be the only gun that crosses the barrier (that I can think of). It'll be interesting to see what kind of adjustments people start making in order to bring the weight of their gun up. Things like internal frame weights, tungsten barrels, and other random craziness. 

 

I think someone should petition their AD to get flashlights allowed in CO and Production. That would be the cheapest easiest way to add weight and still find a legal holster for the plastic gun owners who feel out gunned due to their gun being 25-30 oz under the competition. Plus the gun still looks like a service type pistol if that matters in this game at all anymore.

[Limitless13]

That's a freaking genius idea. I have some LEO friends that would be very into that. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Limitless13

[HCH]

I’ve been saying from the get go that if there is a set limit on weight, you should be able to do whatever you want to get it to that number. 

 

It seems to me hanging a weight off the off the front of your Glock is a lot less “modification” than milling the crap out of an S2 to get it DOWN in weight to make the old limit. 

 

But im just a pee on. 

[HCH]

And I think the derail was kinda my fault when I replied saying we didn’t need a Limited Minor division lol

[zombywoof]

Light slide, light reciprocating weight, nice. Heavy frame, should be awesome.

[Xanatos903]

14 hours ago, HCH said:

I’ve been saying from the get go that if there is a set limit on weight, you should be able to do whatever you want to get it to that number. 

 

It seems to me hanging a weight off the off the front of your Glock is a lot less “modification” than milling the crap out of an S2 to get it DOWN in weight to make the old limit. 

 

But im just a pee on. 

 

Well the original rules for CO didn't allow huge slide cuts like S2 shooters needed. 

 

I think moaning about how one's Glock isn't competitive should be rewarded with a ban that is only lifted once you prove you've taken a training course, or made at least 6 trips to the range for practice. 

[shred]

It was possible to get a S2 under the old weight limit without any slide cuts but the sight cut.  I know, I did it.  But you were then limited on options for dots and grips and guide roads and other parts.   Milling the crap out of a S2 slide is a choice the owner made to use their choice of parts.

 

[HCH]

6 hours ago, Xanatos903 said:

 

Well the original rules for CO didn't allow huge slide cuts like S2 shooters needed. 

 

I think moaning about how one's Glock isn't competitive should be rewarded with a ban that is only lifted once you prove you've taken a training course, or made at least 6 trips to the range for practice. 

 

I made A class with a Glock in CO with a FF3 on a dovetail adapter...

 

but that still doesn’t mean a person shouldn’t be allowed to ADD external weight up to the division weight limit. With the limit now 59oz, a guy should be allowed to hang a 1.5lb weight off a plastic fantastic. 

 

 

 

 

So so how long to I get banned for?

[usmc1974]

1 hour ago, HCH said:

So so how long to I get banned for?

Lol I shot a glock 35 for a long time. Never felt it held me back felt like I was holding it back. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by usmc1974

[Xanatos903]

2 hours ago, HCH said:

 

I made A class with a Glock in CO with a FF3 on a dovetail adapter...

 

but that still doesn’t mean a person shouldn’t be allowed to ADD external weight up to the division weight limit. With the limit now 59oz, a guy should be allowed to hang a 1.5lb weight off a plastic fantastic. 

 

 

 

 

So so how long to I get banned for?

 

Until you realize you can hit M or GM.

 

There are already two divisions where people can make (mostly) unlimited modifications to their guns. Why should we further blur the lines between Poor Open and Open?

Edited April 4, 2020 by Xanatos903

[HCH]

1 hour ago, Xanatos903 said:

 

Until you realize you can hit M or GM.

 

There are already two divisions where people can make (mostly) unlimited modifications to their guns. Why should we further blur the lines between Poor Open and Open?

 

If the weight limit is X, why can’t I make my gun weigh X?

 

Im not saying you have to have a 3.5 pound gun to be competitive—never have. I’m saying it doesn’t make sense to have the weight limit be X and then not allow certain guns the ability to get to that number. 

 

Either: weight limit is now “X”or ”weight limit is X number of ounces over weight on production list” would be fine

 

.... but “weight limit is X.... but you can’t add external weight” is quite silly. 

[usmc1974]

2 hours ago, Xanatos903 said:

 

Until you realize you can hit M or GM.

 

There are already two divisions where people can make (mostly) unlimited modifications to their guns. Why should we further blur the lines between Poor Open and Open?

 

35 minutes ago, HCH said:

 

If the weight limit is X, why can’t I make my gun weigh X?

 

Im not saying you have to have a 3.5 pound gun to be competitive—never have. I’m saying it doesn’t make sense to have the weight limit be X and then not allow certain guns the ability to get to that number. 

 

Either: weight limit is now “X”or ”weight limit is X number of ounces over weight on production list” would be fine

 

.... but “weight limit is X.... but you can’t add external weight” is quite silly. 

The logic in these two posts is undeniable, and deserves an honest answer. But I doubt it will be forthcoming.