Recoil spring set up for subcompact p320 slide

[earlan357]

1 hour ago, m700 said:

What spring will you be running?

Gonna try out an OEM "white" spring from a P228/229, an OEM P250C round wire, and a 15# P228 spring from Wolff.  Hopefully the Wolff works since it's available in a wide variety of weights.  The biggest problem is there's only .682" of space for the spring when the slide is fully to the rear with my adapter plug and guide rod.  I'm using a modified 1911 guide rod right now with a base thickness of .070".  The plug takes up another .083".  I have a GrayGuns fat rod for a 228/229 on the way which should have a thinner base.  If I need more room, I think the hollow P228 oem guiderod has an even thinner lip.  Hopefully that's enough because I don't want to ream the slide for a reverse plug.  

[tk4]

On 3/10/2020 at 5:24 PM, earlan357 said:

Guide rod is done.  Chopped an old XD spring as a place holder.  Not strong enough to keep the slide closed. Just waiting for the spring to arrive on Monday.

I'm anxious to see how this works out.   Would you be willing to sell a few of those plugs?

[earlan357]

1 hour ago, tk4 said:

I'm anxious to see how this works out.   Would you be willing to sell a few of those plugs?

If it works, you’ll be able to make your own.

[apollopark]

I got the pmm ultra comp and a sc norrso slide. With a sro mounted the subcompact recoil spring will only cycle with +p ammo. lve hand cycled 200rnds and went through 2 boxes of 124 nato with Jarrods advice with no avail. They should offer some type of reduced recoil spring. The comp takes so much energy away on normal loads and wont cycle light ammo. Im going to attempt to cut the inner coil in the meantime.

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[dbpfa5]

1 hour ago, apollopark said:

I got the pmm ultra comp and a sc norrso slide. With a sro mounted the subcompact recoil spring will only cycle with +p ammo. lve hand cycled 200rnds and went through 2 boxes of 124 nato with Jarrods advice with no avail. They should offer some type of reduced recoil spring. The comp takes so much energy away on normal loads and wont cycle light ammo. Im going to attempt to cut the inner coil in the meantime.

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What kind of ammo is giving you problems? I've run Speer Lawmen 147 and Federal Syntech 147 with my XCompact and ultra comp without any real issues. Blazer 115 would jam every 5 rounds. 

[apollopark]

What kind of ammo is giving you problems? I've run Speer Lawmen 147 and Federal Syntech 147 with my XCompact and ultra comp without any real issues. Blazer 115 would jam every 5 rounds. 

Ae 124 147
Lawman 147
Blazer 115
Wb 115
130pf reloads
This is on a x5 legion frame and sro. I just took off 5% of pretension sprung wieght on both springs. Gonna have to test and try till i get ejections right

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[ClangClang]

On 3/17/2020 at 3:48 PM, apollopark said:

I got the pmm ultra comp and a sc norrso slide. With a sro mounted the subcompact recoil spring will only cycle with +p ammo. lve hand cycled 200rnds and went through 2 boxes of 124 nato with Jarrods advice with no avail. They should offer some type of reduced recoil spring. The comp takes so much energy away on normal loads and wont cycle light ammo. Im going to attempt to cut the inner coil in the meantime.

 

That's interesting. I know that within my little friend group, there are at least 5 (if not 7) different P320's with the 2 port Ultra comp on a subcompact slide. All run perfectly with pretty much any factory ammo except for Blazer Brass 115. I know one guy has occasional extraction issues with Geco 115 (maybe 1-2 rounds per 21 rd mag?). I believe everyone has stock Sig slides though, not the Norsso.  I vaguely recall reading something about the Norsso slides being made to tighter tolerances and having tighter lockup for enhanced accuracy, but I could be making that up. However if true, it could be part of the issue - the tight fit is robbing the slide of energy.  I would also be curious to know the exact weights of the Norsso vs stock slide. If the Norsso is heavier, that could also be contributing to your problem.

 

Finally, some basic questions that are probably moot, but need to be asked.

1. Gun is clean or dirty?
2. What lube do you use, where do you apply it, and how much?
3. In what kind of temperatures have you encountered these issues?
4. How many rounds on your recoil spring? Have you been able to try another spring known to be good, just to confirm that you don't have a fluke bad spring?

Edited March 19, 2020 by ClangClang

[apollopark]

Just to clarify. This has a trijicon sro mounted on it.

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[earlan357]

So I realized that a 1911 spring plug fit perfectly in my P320C slide.  I just had to trim off the rear so it wouldn't stick out past the slide dustcover.  I used a GrayGuns Fat p228 rod, a custom made rod, and a G19 rod to try out some springs.

Results:
OEM Sig P228 Blue spring:  Unmodified but barely closes the slide
OEM P250C spring: Unmodified but cannot close the slide against the striker spring.
Wolff 15# P228 spring:  Unmodified but cannot close the slide against the striker spring.
ISMI 15# Glock 19 spring:  Had to cut off 5 coils before the slide would travel fully to the rear.  Cannot close the slide.
S&W M&P 2.0 3.6" OEM spring:  Unmodified but is heavier than OEM P320C spring near end of stroke

CZ P10F OEM spring: Had to cut to cut off 4 coils to maintain slide travel.  Feels similar to OEM spring but with reduced preload.

So only the M&P 2.0 3.6" and cut down P10F spring will actually fit in my P320C.  The problem is, both reduce pre-load but not final weight when the slide is fully back.  Since there's no hammer to delay the slide, this is the opposite of what I want.  Without extending the slide to allow for a longer spring, the 2-piece oem setup is more ideal.

So I picked up an extra inner spring, then took my OEM recoil spring apart and cut off 2 coils.  It's not as easy as an uncaptured rod, but not a big deal if you have a sturdy vise.  My friend asked me how to take one apart so I made a quick video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_zbdjbSiQA

I'll try the single springs but I'm 99% certain the modified oem spring will function better.

[hamiltonarmory]

On 3/21/2020 at 10:01 PM, earlan357 said:

So I realized that a 1911 spring plug fit perfectly in my P320C slide.  I just had to trim off the rear so it wouldn't stick out past the slide dustcover.  I used a GrayGuns Fat p228 rod, a custom made rod, and a G19 rod to try out some springs.

Results:
OEM Sig P228 Blue spring:  Unmodified but barely closes the slide
OEM P250C spring: Unmodified but cannot close the slide against the striker spring.
Wolff 15# P228 spring:  Unmodified but cannot close the slide against the striker spring.
ISMI 15# Glock 19 spring:  Had to cut off 5 coils before the slide would travel fully to the rear.  Cannot close the slide.
S&W M&P 2.0 3.6" OEM spring:  Unmodified but is heavier than OEM P320C spring near end of stroke

CZ P10F OEM spring: Had to cut to cut off 4 coils to maintain slide travel.  Feels similar to OEM spring but with reduced preload.

So only the M&P 2.0 3.6" and cut down P10F spring will actually fit in my P320C.  The problem is, both reduce pre-load but not final weight when the slide is fully back.  Since there's no hammer to delay the slide, this is the opposite of what I want.  Without extending the slide to allow for a longer spring, the 2-piece oem setup is more ideal.

So I picked up an extra inner spring, then took my OEM recoil spring apart and cut off 2 coils.  It's not as easy as an uncaptured rod, but not a big deal if you have a sturdy vise.  My friend asked me how to take one apart so I made a quick video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_zbdjbSiQA

I'll try the single springs but I'm 99% certain the modified oem spring will function better.

So where did you land on this?  I’d been contemplating attempting the very steps you tried for the very same reasons.  X-carry doesn’t reliably cycle 147 subs with suppressor. 

[Johnblaze678]

On 3/3/2020 at 10:18 PM, tk4 said:

I am putting together a p320 with a subcompact slide and compensator.   What recoil spring and guide rod setup should I use???  I would like  to be able to run 125pf loads.

I have also preffered light spring setups on my 2011s.

Thanks 

 

Not sure if this has been answered in this thread, but DPMS does make a subcompact guide rod system with 3 different springs. You have to order it from their website, and it's shipped from Greece. It's not available from US third party sellers like their compact and full size systems. I have one and it's great with the PMM dual port comp. 

[Johnblaze678]

On 3/3/2020 at 10:18 PM, tk4 said:

I am putting together a p320 with a subcompact slide and compensator.   What recoil spring and guide rod setup should I use???  I would like  to be able to run 125pf loads.

I have also preffered light spring setups on my 2011s.

Thanks 

 

https://www.dpmsystems.com/sig-sauer-p-320-x-compact-rxp/

 

[Johnblaze678]

On 3/4/2020 at 9:20 AM, m700 said:

That's as far as I am in this plan. PMM 2 port with the Faxon barrel Norso slide (not sure of optics)

 

I was toying with the idea of compact slide  and barrel and letting it stick out to pick up a little barrel length but im not sure

 

Im assuming you need a subcompact guide rod system. PMM may have a recommendation on this.

 

 

https://www.dpmsystems.com/sig-sauer-p-320-x-compact-rxp/

[Johnblaze678]

On 3/10/2020 at 9:59 AM, earlan357 said:

Progress:

The bad news is, I don't think a single recoil spring setup is feasible with a P320 SubCompact.  There's barely enough room for a 4" let alone a 3.5".  

I took some measurements on my p320 compact/carry slide.  There's only .866" of space for the spring when fully compressed.  My adapter ring eats up 0.100" and another 0.070" for the base of the guide rod.  That leaves only .696" for the spring at full compression.  My thinnest ISMI 13# G19 spring is .896" fully collapsed.  However, after digging around, I saw that the original 4" P250C used a round wire spring with only 12.5 coils.  It's similar to the springs used in the P225/228/229 series which look very similar to a chopped 1911 recoil spring with much steeper helix angle.  So I ordered a 15# Wolff P228 recoil spring.  In the meantime, I made an adapter plug from some 317 stainless rod.  I based it around the dimensions for 1911 spring plug but I added a chamfer inside the rear to prevent the recoil spring from hanging up as it kinks on the rod.  I'll test the fit of the plug with a Glock spring and guiderod tonight.

Just get this

httpsps://www.dpmsystems.com/sig-sauer-p-320-x-compact-rxp/

[Johnblaze678]

On 3/17/2020 at 3:48 PM, apollopark said:

I got the pmm ultra comp and a sc norrso slide. With a sro mounted the subcompact recoil spring will only cycle with +p ammo. lve hand cycled 200rnds and went through 2 boxes of 124 nato with Jarrods advice with no avail. They should offer some type of reduced recoil spring. The comp takes so much energy away on normal loads and wont cycle light ammo. Im going to attempt to cut the inner coil in the meantime.

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Try this 

https://www.dpmsystems.com/sig-sauer-p-320-x-compact-rxp/

 

 

 

 

[m700]

Thats

23 hours ago, Johnblaze678 said:

https://www.dpmsystems.com/sig-sauer-p-320-x-compact-rxp/

Thats what i ended up with.. picked it up at optics planet. Im thinking of building another one of these as I love the first so much