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Recoil spring set up for subcompact p320 slide


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I am putting together a p320 with a subcompact slide and compensator.   What recoil spring and guide rod setup should I use???  I would like  to be able to run 125pf loads.

I have also preffered light spring setups on my 2011s.

Thanks 

 

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Pmm? I think that's what I'm planning on. I've been to worried about cost to think about springs but I'd like to follow this thread.

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10 hours ago, m700 said:

Pmm? I think that's what I'm planning on. I've been to worried about cost to think about springs but I'd like to follow this thread.

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I do plan to use the PMM 2 port comp.

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DPM in Greece is the only company making a system for the compact. No options out there for the subcompact that I am aware of.

 

If the subcompact slide is the same type, you need a plug that the guide rod fits through on the muzzle end to retain the spring.

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That's as far as I am in this plan. PMM 2 port with the Faxon barrel Norso slide (not sure of optics)

 

I was toying with the idea of compact slide  and barrel and letting it stick out to pick up a little barrel length but im not sure

 

Im assuming you need a subcompact guide rod system. PMM may have a recommendation on this.

 

 

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I have cut down 1911 guide rods and springs to work with 4.25 and 4.5 1911 barrels and slides.

I have a ton of 1911 springs to play with.  Is there a mechanical reason with the p320 subcompact that it won't work with the 1911 style p320 guide rod???

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No, you really need the double captive spring for the SC length slides for progressive compression. A single 1911-style guide rod and spring would not work well with the subcompact. I was up in NH in January at PMM and had this exact discussion with Jarod.  They use the regular OEM/stock subcompact spring with all their Ultra 2-port comps mated to subcompact length slides.

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No, you really need the double captive spring for the SC length slides for progressive compression. A single 1911-style guide rod and spring would not work well with the subcompact. I was up in NH in January at PMM and had this exact discussion with Jarod.  They use the regular OEM/stock subcompact spring with all their Ultra 2-port comps mated to subcompact length slides.
Would this apply to compact also!

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41 minutes ago, ClangClang said:

No, you really need the double captive spring for the SC length slides for progressive compression. A single 1911-style guide rod and spring would not work well with the subcompact. I was up in NH in January at PMM and had this exact discussion with Jarod.  They use the regular OEM/stock subcompact spring with all their Ultra 2-port comps mated to subcompact length slides.

What about the compact slide?  Would it work ok with a one piece guide rod and 1911 spring?

Would you expect the recoil control of the compact length to be superior to the subcompact?

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2 minutes ago, tk4 said:

What about the compact slide?  Would it work ok with a one piece guide rod and 1911 spring?

Would you expect the recoil control of the compact length to be superior to the subcompact?

The compact also uses a dual recoil spring.  The hole at the front of the slide is larger than the diameter of a 1911 recoil spring.  However, the stroke length is slightly longer than a G19 so a single spring would presumably work, but you'd need a custom guide rod and retainer ring.  The SC is too short

I took my p320 compact spring apart and cut down the inner spring to lighten it to work with my suppressor.  I used two finishing nails in a vice to secure the base via the two holes so I could unscrew the retaining nut.  Tricky since everything is under a lot of spring pressure.  

I fabbed a custom guide rod to let me use single XDM springs in my gen5 Glock.  When I get home I'll check to see if they're large enough to stay retained in my p320c slide.  If so, you might be able to cut down an XDM guide rod.

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Thats a hard question. I think you may do ok on resale but will have to wait 6-8 weeks for a replacement

Spent some time on this today and I think I will definitely be going compact norso/pmm 2 port/probably the DPM recoil reduction/trijicon SRO/sig internals. To sit on legion grip/GG comp trigger/ Goguns gaspedal/Silicon carbide on grip/ Springer extended safety. Should be a fun summer

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A lot depends on your eventual use case for the slide/gun.  To me, the real value in going for the Ultra comp on a SC slide is that the slide's OAL will match the regular full size P320, which allows you to use Safariland ALS holsters, which are the gold standard for retention/duty use. Holster choice is important enough to me (for the specific disciplines I compete in - Run and Gun biathlons, occasional 2/3 gun) that holsters actually drive my gun selection criteria.  I'm not interested in a custom kydex rig with Safariland SLS or Bladetech WRS, which are the only options if you go with a custom kydex shop.

For USPSA, where retention isn't wanted, you have a lot more options, but there's really no point in shooting a comped Sig P320 anywhere in USPSA, so I'm assuming this conversation is not being driven by that need.

 

Also, @tk4, I can virtually guarantee you that 125pf loads will NOT run in the setup you're describing. It won't cycle. If you're stuck using the OEM double recoil spring, you'll want a load around 135 with lots of gas (Is that a faster or slower powder? Don't know. I don't reload so I can't offer you much guidance there). If you can drop the weight on the recoil spring, you'll have better luck, but as you've learned above, there really aren't any good options on the market (even DIY) for tuning recoil springs for the SC slide.

 

Edited by ClangClang
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If used for uspsa it would be at local matches, just shooting for hoa, who cares what division. 

Could possible be used as a duty gun in the future, but not likely. 

I use a pretty fast powder.  I don't shoot too many matches anymore, but when I do it is usually a steel only no pf match.  

Maybe I will try to modify a stock guide rod assembly.  

Any suggestions on different springs/spring weights to try for the subcompact setup???

I run a 9lb in my 9mm 2011.

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Can I get a Springer guide rod designed to work with 1911 springs, and cut it down to length???

You'll need to cut it to size, turn it down to diameter, and fit a plug to retain the spring  

I'm making an assumption that the sub compact is the same as my compact (carry) guide rod. Shown below: DPM compact recoil spring and Springer precision 1911 guide on a full size

 

b1e1b775ed371580d1c867897e152bae.jpged29738f07d5bd0d852c776b19973523.jpgb3a8d77144f336744e9afcade9c4a741.jpg5e8d4a2a190f2ee6c12750234bdf245b.jpg

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, DesertTortoise said:

You'll need to cut it to size, turn it down to diameter, and fit a plug to retain the spring  

I'm making an assumption that the sub compact is the same as my compact (carry) guide rod. Shown below: DPM compact recoil spring and Springer precision 1911 guide on a full size

 

b1e1b775ed371580d1c867897e152bae.jpged29738f07d5bd0d852c776b19973523.jpgb3a8d77144f336744e9afcade9c4a741.jpg5e8d4a2a190f2ee6c12750234bdf245b.jpg

 

 

 

 

So, the non camptive spring on the DPM.  What other common springs would be compatible diameter wise.  Or what would be compatible to change out the stock subcompact spring.

I will probably get the stock sig subcompact guide rod, and try to remove the front spring and replace it with something lighter.

Would a cut 1911 spring work???

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On 3/5/2020 at 8:44 AM, tk4 said:

So, the non camptive spring on the DPM.  What other common springs would be compatible diameter wise.  Or what would be compatible to change out the stock subcompact spring.

I will probably get the stock sig subcompact guide rod, and try to remove the front spring and replace it with something lighter.

Would a cut 1911 spring work???

 

I've been thinking about how to retrofit a single recoil spring into my P320 Compact slide so I can tune the spring to run light loads better when suppressed.  I measured the stroke distance of the slide at 1.969".  My 4.25" 1911 stroke is 1.952".  So there might be enough room for a 1911 Commander spring to function without binding.  I've got some ideas for a guide rod and adapter setup and should have parts in hand next week to start tinkering.

 

Regarding the P320 Sub-Compact, ISMI makes flat-wire springs for 3.5" 1911s, but without an SC slide on hand to measure stroke length or minimum space needed when the recoil spring is fully compressed, I don't know if they'd even fit.  But if I can get my Compact adapted to a single spring, it shouldn't be too hard to make one for an SC.
 

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Progress:

The bad news is, I don't think a single recoil spring setup is feasible with a P320 SubCompact.  There's barely enough room for a 4" let alone a 3.5".  

I took some measurements on my p320 compact/carry slide.  There's only .866" of space for the spring when fully compressed.  My adapter ring eats up 0.100" and another 0.070" for the base of the guide rod.  That leaves only .696" for the spring at full compression.  My thinnest ISMI 13# G19 spring is .896" fully collapsed.  However, after digging around, I saw that the original 4" P250C used a round wire spring with only 12.5 coils.  It's similar to the springs used in the P225/228/229 series which look very similar to a chopped 1911 recoil spring with much steeper helix angle.  So I ordered a 15# Wolff P228 recoil spring.  In the meantime, I made an adapter plug from some 317 stainless rod.  I based it around the dimensions for 1911 spring plug but I added a chamfer inside the rear to prevent the recoil spring from hanging up as it kinks on the rod.  I'll test the fit of the plug with a Glock spring and guiderod tonight.

FA3071EF-3AFE-4ACF-88B1-5E63DFDEE7EA.JPG

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Could you manufacture the plug to protrude the front of the slide? to gain a little? I suppose the comp would have to be modified so that it wouldn't interfere. Im not saying it will look good but may be a possible solution

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40 minutes ago, m700 said:

Could you manufacture the plug to protrude the front of the slide? to gain a little? I suppose the comp would have to be modified so that it wouldn't interfere. Im not saying it will look good but may be a possible solution

Not without cutting up the slide.  I'd have to bore all the way through the hole and cut it for a reverse plug like on bull barreled 1911s and it would only gain back .100".  Plus that concentrates a lot of stress on the relatively thin corners of the plug.  Maybe for weak loads and a 10-12# spring, but in that case the comp wouldn't be as effective.  The user would be better served just swapping to a longer barrel/slide.

In my case, I can't extended the plug or it will hit my suppressor.  I have an Omega9k and it will barely cycle with 147 subsonic and doesn't always lock the slide back.  I tried just cutting down the inner spring of dual spring assembly.  By the time I removed enough coils to lock the slide to the rear reliably, it removed enough preload that it doesn't always fully close the slide on a full magazine.(OEM 21 round)  

My main concern with the P228 springs is that they'll wear out quickly and need frequent replacement.  But my P320 is currently a range toy (SBR'd with a B&T chassis) and I'm used to changing recoil springs every 5-8k on my competition guns anyways.

My overall goal is to figure out something that works with mostly off the shelf parts and basic hand tools.

20181203_233403.jpg

Edited by earlan357
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