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Match fee affecting attendance?


Jollymon32
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2020 Florida open - 266 shooters $275, 11 Stages

2019 Florida Open - 332 shooters

2018 Florida Open- 438 shooters

2017 Florida Open - 385 shooters.

*Data from PractiScore 

 

I don’t have the match fees for the previous years, but this being a range I frequent often, I do know the match fee has escalated rapidly every subsequent year.

 

The ‘chatter’ that I have overheard relates to the advent of the monthly Level 1 matches sporting 8 and 9 quality stages that lower the per stage price to around $3, so that when they see matches at $25 per stage, they balk.

 

Sure, I get it, at these larger matches there is more competition, better stages, better officiating, etc.  But, I believe that a large contingent of shooters don’t  care about this, they just want to shoot some stages, and I surmise that it is this large contingent of shooters that have “tuned out” due to high match fees. 

 

My perspective is limited to Florida, what have you seen in other areas of the country?

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I can only speak for myself, but the cost per stage is why i basically no longer shoot level 2s.  Not saying I won't ever shoot another one, but when i put the pencil to it, it generally I cna shoot 50 club level stages for the cost of 10 level 2 stages.  So my experience says i wouldn't shoot it for that reason, if i was in the area.  

 

I wouldn't be shooting that particular match regardless because of distance , but can definitely see cost being a reason for the decline in large  match  attendance

Edited by RJH
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45 minutes ago, Jollymon32 said:

2020 Florida open - 266 shooters $275, 11 Stages

2019 Florida Open - 332 shooters $275, 11 stages

2018 Florida Open- 438 shooters $210, 11 stages

2017 Florida Open - 385 shooters._____, 11 stages

*Data from PractiScore 

 

I don’t have the match fees for the previous years, but this being a range I frequent often, I do know the match fee has escalated rapidly every subsequent year.

 

The ‘chatter’ that I have overheard relates to the advent of the monthly Level 1 matches sporting 8 and 9 quality stages that lower the per stage price to around $3, so that when they see matches at $25 per stage, they balk.

 

Sure, I get it, at these larger matches there is more competition, better stages, better officiating, etc.  But, I believe that a large contingent of shooters don’t  care about this, they just want to shoot some stages, and I surmise that it is this large contingent of shooters that have “tuned out” due to high match fees. 

 

My perspective is limited to Florida, what have you seen in other areas of the country?

 

Best I could find online if you're interested. Not really a big change.

Edited by Racinready300ex
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3 minutes ago, RJH said:

Just put the math to it, I could shoot 78 stages of the average cost local match for the cost of that match.  That's crazy

 

I think there is more to level 2's and above then just the number of stages. Typically they are better stages with more thought put into them. Also the level of competition is higher as shooters come from other clubs you might not get to shoot against normally. The bigger and better the match the farther people will travel. And when I say bigger I mean like Nationals, vs, Area vs section, vs state, vs club level. Not just number of stages. A 11 stage state match vs a 12 stage Area match will have a big difference in turn out.

 

 

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@Racinready300ex i know there more to it than stages, i have shot area matches and other level 2s. However I don't think there is enough more to justify the huge disparity in cost for me.  There is no match that is worth 20+ dollars a stage IMO. 

 

These are my opinions and beliefs though,  I am not trying to convince anyone else to my way of thinking.  Everyone should shoot what they want  🙂

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4 minutes ago, RJH said:

@Racinready300ex i know there more to it than stages, i have shot area matches and other level 2s. However I don't think there is enough more to justify the huge disparity in cost for me.  There is no match that is worth 20+ dollars a stage IMO. 

 

These are my opinions and beliefs though,  I am not trying to convince anyone else to my way of thinking.  Everyone should shoot what they want  🙂

 

Not trying to convince you, everyone had to decide for themselves what they are willing to pay. Around here lvl2 run about $13-15 a stage. I've shot IDPA lvl-3's for as low as $5 a stage.

 

I've honestly never really thought about it as price per stage.

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These topics are hilarious as they are normally had by people who dont run matches and dont know the underlying costs of what it takes to put said matches on.

 

Matches fees are going to rise slowly as more and more industry support pulls out of sponsoring matches. Matches dont have good ROI for sponsors.  Shooters expect more immensities at majors. (Water at each stage, 3-4 ROs per stage, More props, massive prize table and food). Its laughable to compare locals where you roll up and help set up and tear down the same day while staffing the match yourself, to multi day matches with 4-5 x the amount of people and double the stages.

 

If I could roll up with stages ready to go and roll out ASAP after my last shot at a local, I would be paying 2-3X more happily lol.

 

When Nationals is $500 in a few years, I wont be on here wondering why or how that has happened.

 

There will always be 3 groups in USPSA. Those who randomly shoot locals, Those who regularly shoot locals and maybe go to 1 major, And those who shoot majors regularly. People who go to majors a lot see the same group of people constantly.

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29 minutes ago, Maximis228 said:

These topics are hilarious as they are normally had by people who dont run matches and dont know the underlying costs of what it takes to put said matches on.

 

 

Agreed that this topic is funny. 

However, I know the underlying costs, and I know you don't have to charge $275 to put on an 11 stage match for 260 shooters. Even with amenities, tons of food, porta john rentals, tons of prizes, expensive awards, etc...   That is, of course, unless someone is putting on the match to make a profit, which is perfectly fine. Free enterprise is great. 

 

Again, I'm not saying a range/match SHOULDN'T charge as much as they can, they should charge whatever they want. Just don't pee on me and tell me it's raining. 

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6 minutes ago, Ssanders224 said:

 

Agreed that this topic is funny. 

However, I know the underlying costs, and I know you don't have to charge $275 to put on an 11 stage match for 260 shooters. Even with amenities, tons of food, porta john rentals, tons of prizes, expensive awards, etc...   That is, of course, unless someone is putting on the match to make a profit, which is perfectly fine. Free enterprise is great. 

 

Again, I'm not saying a range/match SHOULDN'T charge as much as they can, they should charge whatever they want. Just don't pee on me and tell me it's raining. 

 

Locals are primarily non profits. Majors not so much. Fully agree.

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32 minutes ago, Maximis228 said:

These topics are hilarious as they are normally had by people who dont run matches and dont know the underlying costs of what it takes to put said matches on.

 

Matches fees are going to rise slowly as more and more industry support pulls out of sponsoring matches. Matches dont have good ROI for sponsors.  Shooters expect more immensities at majors. (Water at each stage, 3-4 ROs per stage, More props, massive prize table and food). Its laughable to compare locals where you roll up and help set up and tear down the same day while staffing the match yourself, to multi day matches with 4-5 x the amount of people and double the stages.

 

If I could roll up with stages ready to go and roll out ASAP after my last shot at a local, I would be paying 2-3X more happily lol.

 

When Nationals is $500 in a few years, I wont be on here wondering why or how that has happened.

 

There will always be 3 groups in USPSA. Those who randomly shoot locals, Those who regularly shoot locals and maybe go to 1 major, And those who shoot majors regularly. People who go to majors a lot see the same group of people constantly.

 

Several of the matches I've worked the sponsors just give prizes for the prize table. If shooters were willing to do with out a prize table then we wouldn't need nearly as much sponsorship. Personally I don't go to majors for the prizes, which is good because I rarely win anything. Most of the matches I've worked have also had more stages then the FO which likely means more targets, more pasters and more staff too. And yet the entry fee was a lot less. The biggest expense is staff, and the best way to reduce that cost is have a lot of local RO's willing to work the match. Hotel rooms add up really fast, 

 

Another way to look at it is how fast do the matches fill up. The Area match here will probably be like $200 and will likely sell out in minutes. That means the price is to low. 

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1 minute ago, Racinready300ex said:

The biggest expense is staff, and the best way to reduce that cost is have a lot of local RO's willing to work the match. Hotel rooms add up really fast,

 

40-60 local ROs....Good luck. LOL

 

This sport will never grow beyond its current trajectory as long as we EXPECT people to volunteer their time. Doesn't matter if you use local people or the revolving crew of CRO/ROs who currently work the majority of majors in the US.

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13 minutes ago, Maximis228 said:

 

40-60 local ROs....Good luck. LOL

 

This sport will never grow beyond its current trajectory as long as we EXPECT people to volunteer their time. Doesn't matter if you use local people or the revolving crew of CRO/ROs who currently work the majority of majors in the US.

 

 

I didn't give a number did I? Where did you come up with 40-60 local RO's?

 

 But, for every local RO you have you could save 3 nights in a hotel and the hotel is $15K+ of your budget. 

Edited by Racinready300ex
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6 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

 

I didn't give a number did I? Where did you come up with 40-60 local RO's? Pull out of ass?

 

 But, for every local RO you have you could save 3 nights in a hotel and the hotel is $15K+ of your budget. 

 

Average major is 10-13 stages.

 

3 ROs per stage is 30-39 ROs.

4 ROs per stage is 40-52 ROs.

 

Add additional match staff for Mr Fix it, Stats, Check in, MD, RM, and other random stuff.

 

40-60 staffers... But yes. Out of my ass. LOL

 

Edited by Maximis228
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23 minutes ago, Maximis228 said:

 

Average major is 10-13 stages.

 

3 ROs per stage is 30-39 ROs.

4 ROs per stage is 40-52 ROs.

 

Add additional match staff match staff for Mr Fix it, Stats, Check in, MD, RM, and other random stuff.

 

40-60 staffers... But yes. Out of my ass. LOL

 

 

Okay show me where I said staff the whole match with locals? I said have a lot of locals willing to help will REDUCE the cost. Had I said ELIMINATE the cost you're point would make more sense. 

 

Edited by Racinready300ex
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1 minute ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Okay show me where I said staff the whole match with locals? I said have a lot of locals willing to help will REDUCE the cost. Had I said ELIMINATE the cost you're point would make more sense. So stick it back up your ass

 

 

Someone is pretty salty for an internet forum that changes nothing in the real world... lolol

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9 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

 

I didn't give a number did I? Where did you come up with 40-60 local RO's?

 

 But, for every local RO you have you could save 3 nights in a hotel and the hotel is $15K+ of your budget. 

 

You do understand that the goal of match and match staff is to run an efficient and well managed match correct?  Not save 'you' money. 

 

I'd rather pay $500 for a major knowing it will run flawless then spending money on flight, car, hotel, food, drinks, range supplies, etc. having a match that takes HOURS longer than it should, waiting backed up squads, etc. all to save $50-100 by running it with the bare minimum staff. 

 

I know for a fact that most people who actually shoot majors regularly will agree with this. 

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People acting like matches aren't a source of revenue for clubs, organizations, private businesses and not just 'to cover costs' is comical AF.
 
Exactly. What's the point of hiding a major otherwise?

Majors take a lot more effort, use more resources and eat into fees the range could otherwise be collecting the weeks around a big match.
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This Thread is getting entertaining. I do think Maximus got it right on his three types of shooters, and depending on what kind of shooter you are really depends on what you're willing to spend. I fall in that middle category as i shoot quite a few locals and few majors. It's my reason to not be willing to spend a ton of money and looking at any match is a cost per stage. I don't fault anyone though for charging whatever they can get and making some money for themselves, Shooters can be a pain in the ass to put up with and should be charged accordingly 🙂

Edited by RJH
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9 minutes ago, mikeg1005 said:

People acting like matches aren't a source of revenue for clubs, organizations, private businesses and not just 'to cover costs' is comical AF.

 

 

Revenue? Or net profit? 

 

If you mean't to say a "source of profit".... Eh, as it relates to level II matches (per this thread), there are clubs that host level II's and don't clear a profit. 

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3 minutes ago, mikeg1005 said:

 

You do understand that the goal of match and match staff is to run an efficient and well managed match correct?  Not save 'you' money. 

 

I'd rather pay $500 for a major knowing it will run flawless then spending money on flight, car, hotel, food, drinks, range supplies, etc. having a match that takes HOURS longer than it should, waiting backed up squads, etc. all to save $50-100 by running it with the bare minimum staff. 

 

I know for a fact that most people who actually shoot majors regularly will agree with this. 

 

What I was trying to say is if people help at the matches in their area the cost to put on those matches would be lower. That is all. The match doesn't have to suffer unless all your local RO's are incompetent. I'm not saying matches should be cheaper over all. Most of the majors I shoot are priced fine. But, I would not travel to Florida to shoot 11 stages for $300.

 

Price them as high as the market will bear. Clearly if attendance is dropping the FO then either price is to high or the quality is too low.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Ssanders224 said:

 

Revenue? Or net profit? 

 

If you mean't to say a "source of profit".... Eh, as it relates to level II matches (per this thread), there are clubs that host level II's and don't clear a profit. 

 

Well that's just... Dumb. lol.

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Just now, Ssanders224 said:

 

Revenue? Or net profit? 

 

If you mean't to say a "source of profit".... Eh, as it relates to level II matches (per this thread), there are clubs that host level II's and don't clear a profit. 

 

I guess you could call it profit... When the home range says we want _____ to host a match.  I'm sure there are those who make nothing but on the other hand I know of several clubs locally that held sectionals and there had a per shoot cost that went into their bank account, above and beyond running the cost of the match.  

 

This is especially true of local matches.  Both of my clubs make $1000s and $1000s of dollars off USPSA. 

 

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