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How To Eliminate Seeing Two Targets


Flea
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I'm a pretty new shooter, 58 years old and and shoot a commander size 1911. I was at the range today trying to shoot a 5.5" circle at 10 yards and found it impossible to not see two targets. I shoot with both eyes open and am trying to be as close to 100% front sight focused. I've heard it's not uncommon for a lot of folks to see two targets. I try squinting my left eye and it doesn't help that much. I am right handed and right eye dominant. I've been working with my optometrist to get my eyes dialed in. So far I am using a reading distance contact in my right eye and a distance in my left eye.

 

Can anyone give me tips/tricks/drills that will eliminate or drastically reduce seeing two targets? Trying to shoot a fast string of shots would be totally spray and pray for me with my current double vision. You don't need to say hey get a red dot.

 

Thanks

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Just to add to the story. I just took out my reading contact from my right eye and put my distance contact in my right eye (so only wearing one contact). It turns out I no longer see two targets. I see a pretty fuzzy sight and a fuzzy target. A fuzzy target to me would seem to be much better than two targets...yes? But the front sight isn't very clear so getting equal height, equal light is a bit tough. When i put my reading contact in my left eye and kept the distance in my right eye, two targets again.

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Not at all unusual since we have binocular vision. Either two targets or two front sights with both eyes open depending on where the focus is.

 

One thing I've learned (being left eyed and right handed) is plenty of dry fire practice raising the pistol to my dominate (left) eye and *choosing* to look at the image on the right, turning my head slightly to the right (see pic - not me, BTW). You can practice doing it with your finger or pencil until it becomes natural.

 

Better yet, I installed an RMR and put the dot on the target using my dominate eye.c2795e9619302e7a60ef772c82967f6c.jpg

 

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3 hours ago, perttime said:

Many have managed to teach the "weak eye" to ignore the sights by placing a piece of transparent tape on the weak side lense on their glasses.

 

Seeing fuzzy front sight and fuzzy target is not good.

 

I'm aware of that but would like to not have to resort to something artificial like putting tape on some glasses.

Edited by Flea
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Your reading contact is focused too close most likely. I am on my first set of glasses and that is my big issue. Kept getting asked, "What do I want ?" I want to see,,,  No idea about glasses figured they would tell me,
Any way turns out they use the old typical "reading" distance of about 12 inches,, like someone would hold a book. Problem is, I dont read a book, I read a screen or  read gauges, that are farther away. So the "reading portion is worthless to me.  I am going to try a mechanics cut next  time. Basically the reading portion is focused at 25". Which is distance to my front sight.
Should work better for work. 
FAr as shooting I am going with a right (strongside) full lens focused  at 25 inches and a left lens at normal distance.

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My eye doctor (she’s a shooter) had me stretch out my arms to mimic my shooting position and she had the number/letters you need to read placed at that distance during my eye exam. She explained to me that there’s a significant difference between distances the eyes focus on seeing (reading vs shooting/iron sight distance). My shooting glasses’ ( monovision lens) prescription was based with my arms stretched out in a shooting position. 
 

My regular reading glasses have 1.75 magnification on both lenses while my shooting glasses uses .5 magnification on my dominant eye to see the front sight while the left lens is not magnified at all so I can see distant objects/targets. 
 

She also told me to do the near and far focusing exercise to prevent the ghosting effect (seeing two object).

 

How to practice "Near and Far Focusing":

1. Sitting or standing,  place your thumb about 10 inches in front of you and focus on it.
2. Now focus on something else about 10–20 feet in front of you.
3. Take deep breaths between focusing on your thumb and the object 10-20 feet away from you.

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The way I taught my brain to see with my right eye was a gradual step by step process. Initially during dry fire I closed my left eye and only used my right eye to acquire the sights. This step took a while...months maybe. The next step I took after I felt comfortable with the right eye only was to barely open the left eye once the sights were acquired with the right eye. Again this took months. As I began to feel more comfortable just squinting through the left eye and having the sights through my right eye I began to squint less and less. Months later and much dry fire I only occasionally need to shut my left eye to check that I'm seeing the sight with my right. No more "two targets". Occasionally when I wasn't dry firing I would use my right index finger tip to line it up on an object and check to see if I was using my right eye, squinting or "winking" my left eye just to check.

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43 minutes ago, George16 said:

 

My regular reading glasses have 1.75 magnification on both lenses while my shooting glasses uses .5 magnification on my dominant eye to see the front sight while the left lens is not magnified at all so I can see distant objects/targets. 

This is exactly what I did many years ago and it has worked very well for me. Takes about 15-20 minutes for my eyes to adjust to the glasses when I first put them on. 

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6 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

Sounds like three choices :

 

1.  put tape on glasses

2.  dry fire a LOT

3.  see two targets

 

I can't think of a fourth alternative

 

Did you at one time see two targets with two eyes open and "dry fire it away"?

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1 hour ago, shred said:

I tape all the time for irons.  Don't like it, but I have to.  It doesn't hold me back, just annoying.  The trick is to only put tape where you absolutely have to.

 

Did you try to train the double target away? If so, what did you do and for how long?

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I'd see double-sights because my eyes aren't strongly dominant.  It's always there albeit a bit less so most of the time with training and experience, but in an awkward position it can come back.  Thus the scotch tape and not a problem anymore.  I put the tape just ]above my normal walking-around sight line so once I get on the sights, they're blocked, but otherwise I can see what I'm doing with both eyes.

 

Once I got to needing prescription glasses I had them set up with front sight plus a bit on the strong eye and distance on the weak hoping that would help, which it does, but not completely.

 

A red-dot of course is no issue at all... ;)

 

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3 hours ago, Flea said:

 

Did you at one time see two targets with two eyes open and "dry fire it away"?

 

Never had to.  Always shot with two eyes open, and never had a problem with it.

 

BUT, from reading the advice here, it sounds like a pretty good solution, if its

a problem.

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I can (and do) shoot with both eyes open in slow fire, but when it's time to speed up, the non-dominant sight picture is fighting with shot calling, so I decided to squint the appropriate amount while cleaning an array. This has helped me a lot with gaining raw speed on arrays of targets even if squinted eye provides a bit less information during transition. Remember, you shoot with different focus, from hard target to hard front sight, which affects your double vision differently at different distances. 

 

At some point, when I get quite a bit better, I might revisit both eyes open to see if there is any gain. However, until I can match the speed of shooting while squinting, there is no reason to make it more difficult. The primary problem I had was that as my focus shifted around between targets and sights, the double vision would change in intensity and I would sometimes simply center the double sights on the target, causing a hard D or a Mike. It seems that I would have to work quite a bit to know what the double vision looks like at *every* distance...

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52 minutes ago, Flea said:

What do precision bullseye shooters do? I would imagine they want a crystal clear front sight and crystal clear target?? How can the shoot precisely if only the  front sight is in focus?

A crystal clear front sight is more important than a crystal clear target. Having perfect sight alignment is much more important than having perfect sight "placement". Because a small error in sight alignment will translate to a large error downrange.

Bullseye shooters will generally use the 6 o'clock hold, with their point of aim somewhere in the white below the black bull. This provides them with a good reference point to aim at, without requiring them to focus on that point. The other reason they use 6 o'clock hold is that it puts the black sights against a white background.

 

Hope this makes sense.

Edited by Blackstone45
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It sounds like your dominant eye isn't very dominant. 

 

However... you shouldn't be seeing two targets. 

Our eyes are pretty neat. Focal distance and convergence distance can be different at any given time, or they can be the same. Most successful "both eyes open" shooters focus on the sights, but their eyes converge at the target. Meaning, there is only one fuzzy target in the field of view, but may be two sets of relatively clear and in focus sights. Using the correct "set" of sights isn't an issue if you have a strong dominant eye, as your brain never even registers the "other" set of sights. It's there, and you can see it if you want to, but generally speaking, as far as your brain is concerned, the "other" set doesn't exist. 

 

In cases of cross dominance, or a weak dominant eye, training your brain to automatically use the correct set of sights can be difficult, but it can be done. 

 

For now, I'd work on teaching your brain to converge your vision at the targets, but focus at the sights. Focusing on the sights AND converging at the sights will leave you with an all but unusable view of the targets (as you are experiencing). 

 

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12 minutes ago, Ssanders224 said:

It sounds like your dominant eye isn't very dominant. 

 

However... you shouldn't be seeing two targets. 

Our eyes are pretty neat. Focal distance and convergence distance can be different at any given time, or they can be the same. Most successful "both eyes open" shooters focus on the sights, but their eyes converge at the target. Meaning, there is only one fuzzy target in the field of view, but may be two sets of relatively clear and in focus sights. Using the correct "set" of sights isn't an issue if you have a strong dominant eye, as your brain never even registers the "other" set of sights. It's there, and you can see it if you want to, but generally speaking, as far as your brain is concerned, the "other" set doesn't exist. 

 

In cases of cross dominance, or a weak dominant eye, training your brain to automatically use the correct set of sights can be difficult, but it can be done. 

 

For now, I'd work on teaching your brain to converge your vision at the targets, but focus at the sights. Focusing on the sights AND converging at the sights will leave you with an all but unusable view of the targets (as you are experiencing). 

 

I don't follow your "you shouldn't be seeing two targets". I'm no eye doctor or shooting expert but from what I've read and watched, seeing two targets with both eyes open is pretty common.

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On 2/16/2020 at 5:56 AM, Flea said:

 

I'm aware of that but would like to not have to resort to something artificial like putting tape on some glasses.

many people find that with practice, their brain learns to ignore (stop seeing) the double-images. That never happened for me even after a year of regular dryfire, I suspect because neither of my eyes is strongly dominant. Thats a handy feature for racing dirtbikes,  but not so helpful when shooting. so i put a small piece of tape on my shooting glasses to obscure the sight from my left eye when shooting iron sights and stopped worrying about it. I can see everything else, just not the sights with that eye.

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3 minutes ago, Flea said:

I don't follow your "you shouldn't be seeing two targets". I'm no eye doctor or shooting expert but from what I've read and watched, seeing two targets with both eyes open is pretty common.

 

You will only see two targets if your eyes are "converging" on something other than the target (they shouldn't be). 

You have to teach your brain to split your focus distance (sights), and your convergence distance (target). This comes naturally to some, and takes some practice for others. 

 

Again, FOCUSING on the sights, and CONVERGING on the sights isn't a good recipe. 

 

Practice by holding the tip of a pen up at arms distance, with another object 10-15' behind it. 

This might feel very frustrating or impossible at first, but stick with it. 

Look "through" the pen at the object 15' away. The pen will be blurry, and there will be two of them.  Now, pull the pen into focus, but do not LOOK at the pen. There will still be two pens, but they will be clear. There will only be one of the distant objects, but it will be blurry. Try bringing the pen in and out of focus, and in and out of convergence. 

 

 

 

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