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Gun non-compliant at club matches


nasty618

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Bret,

It's not a matter of 2 guys, it's more like half of the shooters that don't have USPSA numbers at my "club". Some had no idea that it was a bad idea to stand on the berms to take video and were insulted when asked to step down. 

 

HCH,

I don't get the whys of all of them, but I think I have a good guess at most. There isn't enough time in the RO class to cover it, but knowing the why's makes it easier to sell the rules to a new shooter that has issues with a particular one.

Edited by ziebart
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Y'all should lighten up a little, because even if you hate to hear it, it IS JUST A CLUB MATCH.  When i used to  be a MD/RM i stressed trying to make sure the match was 100% legal and if i went to another match that wasn't 100% legal, i would be pissed.  After not being an MD for a few years, i take a much more laid back approach with everything but safety.  Yes, if a noobs  equipment is illegal for some reason or another, try to correct the situation, but it really ain't worth getting worked up for.  Now a days, with my more relaxed attitude i tend to have more fun at matches and even if the match is doing something a little wrong, i don't stress, as long as it ain't plumb dumb, and people are working in good faith,  i tend to roll with it.

 

I know that the rules book don't say it, but a level one is a good place to learn for both staff and competitors, and if things aren't always 100% give them the old "that won't fly at a level 2" and have fun shooting.

 

I know even saying all that is gonna stress some of y'all out, but once again, IT IS JUST A CLUB MATCH

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8 minutes ago, RJH said:

Y'all should lighten up a little, because even if you hate to hear it, it IS JUST A CLUB MATCH.  When i used to  be a MD/RM i stressed trying to make sure the match was 100% legal and if i went to another match that wasn't 100% legal, i would be pissed.  After not being an MD for a few years, i take a much more laid back approach with everything but safety.  Yes, if a noobs  equipment is illegal for some reason or another, try to correct the situation, but it really ain't worth getting worked up for.  Now a days, with my more relaxed attitude i tend to have more fun at matches and even if the match is doing something a little wrong, i don't stress, as long as it ain't plumb dumb, and people are working in good faith,  i tend to roll with it.

 

I know that the rules book don't say it, but a level one is a good place to learn for both staff and competitors, and if things aren't always 100% give them the old "that won't fly at a level 2" and have fun shooting.

 

I know even saying all that is gonna stress some of y'all out, but once again, IT IS JUST A CLUB MATCH

It doesn’t stress me out that you think it. BUT there is no such thing as “just” a club match.

 First match? I MIGHT let an illegal gun fly. But if shooter wants to keep shooting they need to get legal by the second match.

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6 minutes ago, Sarge said:

It doesn’t stress me out that you think it. BUT there is no such thing as “just” a club match.

 First match? I MIGHT let an illegal gun fly. But if shooter wants to keep shooting they need to get legal by the second match.

Seems reasonable 

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1 hour ago, Sarge said:

It doesn’t stress me out that you think it. BUT there is no such thing as “just” a club match.

 First match? I MIGHT let an illegal gun fly. But if shooter wants to keep shooting they need to get legal by the second match.

if you don't weigh *every* gun, how do you know which ones are illegal? I hope you wouldn't be so lazy as to just pick and choose which ones looked obvious to you.

 

still, in CO it's not like the world is gonna end if you just tell someone 'look, you have to register in open until you do some lightening work on that gat'. If the one good open shooter is hungover it's usually a CO guy that wins our local match anyway.

Edited by motosapiens
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1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

if you don't weigh *every* gun, how do you know which ones are illegal? I hope you wouldn't be so lazy as to just pick and choose which ones looked obvious to you.

 

still, in CO it's not like the world is gonna end if you just tell someone 'look, you have to register in open until you do some lightening work on that gat'. If the one good open shooter is hungover it's usually a CO guy that wins our local match anyway.

I strayed from the CZ not being milled etc to obviously illegal guns such as .380 or even .22 mini 1911 that showed up once. 
  Obviously nothing gets weighed at locals and I’m not going to run people to ground for what “may” be a heavy gun. Just like Production with all the allowances these days. I bet you could show a gun to 100 good RO’s and less than 10 would know if the hammer is illegal or legal. 
  

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14 minutes ago, Sarge said:

I strayed from the CZ not being milled etc to obviously illegal guns such as .380 or even .22 mini 1911 that showed up once. 
  Obviously nothing gets weighed at locals and I’m not going to run people to ground for what “may” be a heavy gun. Just like Production with all the allowances these days. I bet you could show a gun to 100 good RO’s and less than 10 would know if the hammer is illegal or legal. 
  

 

See, this is reasonable,  since it is just a local 🤣🤣

 

But seriously,  seems there are some here that would get their panties bunched over that sort of thing

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Do you really want to turn a new shooter off of your club or this game? We need the continuous influx of new competitors.

 

If you can't rectify the equipment issue reasonably then bump them to open and explain why. They aren't going to win whatever division they are playing in anyway. If you are reasonable and explain the rules and ways for them to correct the issues before the next match, they are much more likely to return and have things right.

 

Of course this applies to local level one match only without a stake

 

 

 

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But some would still not know that. Same with triggers.

Any hammer and trigger is legal for any division? So say the CGW race hammer they have in their spring package for the CZs would be legal in production now? Last I read it had to be a hammer off of another production gun? And along the same line, I thought there were a couple divisions where you couldn’t change the trigger shoe?


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1 hour ago, looking4reloadingdeals said:


Any hammer and trigger is legal for any division? So say the CGW race hammer they have in their spring package for the CZs would be legal in production now? Last I read it had to be a hammer off of another production gun? And along the same line, I thought there were a couple divisions where you couldn’t change the trigger shoe?


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Yes. 

819C1F65-7C74-499B-906B-BD261AE53ED6.jpeg

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21 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

One of the guys for example has a MPX, it would be a perfectly legal gun in USPSA but like I mentioned it has a brace which makes it a pistol so this one isn't legal.

As the rest of the inmates in the CA prison, we have to know and follow the rules much closer so I need to correct you on this - the brace has nothing to do with making it a pistol.

 

The primary requirement to make it a rifle is the stock. When there is no stock it's usually a pistol (can also be something called "AOW" which stands for "any other weapon," but let's not go there). An AR pistol will always have the buffer tube because it's part of the design, so it resembles a stock, even though it's not considered one. Then, someone figured out they could create a brace and attach it to the buffer tube which was already there, sell it to the BATFE as "hand support" (braces are supposed to be strapped around the arm), while allowing people to have what is essentially a stock. There was some back-and-forth about how shouldering a brace would make a pistol an SBR, but the BATFE dropped that idea and now, at least in free states, a pistol with a buffer tube can have a brace, which by extension allows other designs that don't use buffer tube to use a brace without triggering the SBR status. 

 

While this is quite technical and is not directly relevant to the thread, it's important to understand since it affects USPSA matches - a pistol cannot be used in PCC division and AR pistols are not allowed at all in any division. In restrictive states, there are additional considerations with respect to AW and SBR status. 

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36 minutes ago, IVC said:

As the rest of the inmates in the CA prison, we have to know and follow the rules much closer so I need to correct you on this - the brace has nothing to do with making it a pistol.

 

The primary requirement to make it a rifle is the stock. When there is no stock it's usually a pistol (can also be something called "AOW" which stands for "any other weapon," but let's not go there). An AR pistol will always have the buffer tube because it's part of the design, so it resembles a stock, even though it's not considered one. Then, someone figured out they could create a brace and attach it to the buffer tube which was already there, sell it to the BATFE as "hand support" (braces are supposed to be strapped around the arm), while allowing people to have what is essentially a stock. There was some back-and-forth about how shouldering a brace would make a pistol an SBR, but the BATFE dropped that idea and now, at least in free states, a pistol with a buffer tube can have a brace, which by extension allows other designs that don't use buffer tube to use a brace without triggering the SBR status. 

 

While this is quite technical and is not directly relevant to the thread, it's important to understand since it affects USPSA matches - a pistol cannot be used in PCC division and AR pistols are not allowed at all in any division. In restrictive states, there are additional considerations with respect to AW and SBR status. 

I'm not sure what you think you corrected. I said he has a pistol it's a short barrel with a brace. A shower barrel with a stock is a rifle. So are you saying his gun isn't a pistol? No. Your saying exactly what I said just using more words to explain something that really isn't needed.

 

To be more in line with the rest of the sport I will not recommend they try uspsa, and if I see anyone I think is out of compliance with their division they are going to open or going home. No place for that s#!t in uspsa

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7 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

I'm not sure what you think you corrected.

You said "...like I mentioned it has a brace which makes it a pistol.." - the exact quote. Brace does not make it a pistol. That's the correction. 

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7 minutes ago, IVC said:

You said "...like I mentioned it has a brace which makes it a pistol.." - the exact quote. Brace does not make it a pistol. That's the correction. 

If he takes off the brace and puts a stock on his pistol what is it?

 

Help me out I need correcting. I'm really confused. Can he just put a stock on his gun like Chalee suggested? That would be really easy.

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4 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

If he takes off the brace and puts a stock on his pistol what is it?

 

Help me out I need correcting. I'm really confused. Can he just put a stock on his gun like Chalee suggested? That would be really easy.

If he takes the brace off and puts a stock on = SBR

 

but if he takes the brace off and just has the buffer tube sticking out it is still a pistol.  I think that is what he was getting at, you don't have to have a brace to have a pistol

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7 minutes ago, RJH said:

If he takes the brace off and puts a stock on = SBR

 

but if he takes the brace off and just has the buffer tube sticking out it is still a pistol.  I think that is what he was getting at, you don't have to have a brace to have a pistol

 

Right, but he quoted me saying he can't put a stock on the gun and felt I needed correcting. So he must be saying you can put a stock on your pistol.

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9 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

It are you just full of s#!t maybe?

You said that brace makes it a pistol. It doesn't. Brace has nothing to do with the pistol designation. 

 

It is important to understand what type of firearm it is since rules specify what can and cannot be used in a USPSA match. Appendix D8 under Special Conditions (1) specifies that an SBR can be used. Brace doesn't make a pistol an SBR and 5.1.10 prohibits such pistols, so understanding the difference between a pistol and a rifle is quite critical, particularly if you want to be an RO where you have to address such issues. 

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Does any of that matter? A brace is specifically disallowed, regardless if it's a rifle or pistol or AOW or firearm...so yea, a rifle with a brace isn't suddenly a pistol, but it's still not legal for the sport. So what are you saying again?

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