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TheGoatMumbler

PISTOL POWDERS ? - VIHTAVUORI N320, HODGDON TITE GROUP, WINCHESTER 231

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Just getting started reloading and have a good formula for my IDPA 9mm load. 147g Blue Bullets, Federal GM Match primers and Vihtavuori N320 powder. The problem is finding the N320 powder consistently so I'm looking for a back up. It works great, clean burning, but damn that stuff is high ! (when you can find it). Since it's imported the local dealers never seem to know when or how much they will get so searching the internet is the only source which makes it REALLY expensive after shipping and hazmat fees. I understand the Tite Group works fine but it's dirtier than the N320. I don't know much about the Winchester 231 except a few old timers at the club like it. I'm also looking for something that will  work in my S&W 929 9mm revolver too. What say you?

Edited by TheGoatMumbler

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I use W231 or HP38 in my 929. Yes titegroup is dirt. I shoot ICORE and some USPSA. To make PF I use less TG powder then W231 or HP38. To me TG has more of a snap compared to W231 or HP. I prefer a softer shot!

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There was a lot buzz around Alliant Sport Pistol. It's supposed to be similar to N320 but cheaper. Here's a 12 page thread with some data 

 

(Standard disclaimer about "use at your own risk")

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Sport Pistol seems to have taken hold as a good alternative to N320. It is far cheaper than N320 that is for sure. Some load data even looks like a 1:1 charge weight between N320 and Sport Pistol.

You'll definitely want to do your own research and work up loads to find what works for you.

I'm using Sport Pistol in 40 Major with 180 gr blue bullets and 9mm minor with 135gr blue bullets.







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Sport Pistol works great. 
 

Recently heard Shooters World Clean Shot is also a good and economical alternative. 

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I'm switching to Sport Pistol from N320 once this 4lb jug I have is gone.

 

With 124gr coated bullets, the loads were nearly identical for me. Both of these are 3.9gr:

 

         N320      Sport Pistol
Avg 1037 1026
PF 128.5 127.2
SD 6.97 8.73
ES 18 26

 

 

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get away from the local stores and order bulk.
But for IDPA ? how many rounds you shooting TG is dirty but not so much that it matter, think at last years USPSA nationals it was STILL the most popular 9mm powder.
However Sport pistol, cleanshot( old AA2)  New AA2, 244 ( the new 231),   would all do you well.  I am loading what I have and buying bulk AA2,, will do pretty much everything I need. 9 minor, 40 major, 45 plus major, 357 mag 180 gr pin loads, might even bump them to 200 if I can find bullets.
TG ia smokey with the older moly bullets but havent had an issue with the newer coatings.

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I've been using WW231 since the Civil War - works very well.

 

Never have tried these new powders.

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34 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

TG is dirty but not so much that it matter,

 

34 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

TG ia smokey with the older moly bullets but havent had an issue with the newer coatings.

This has been my experience as well and I don't clean my guns too often. I've let the Glocks rack up 1K or more before field stripping. Probably less for 1911's. I'll probably try SP at some point since I have some Precision bullets around for which TG is not recommended.

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I've been using WW231 since the Civil War - works very well.
 
Never have tried these new powders.


Me too, since the War of 1812.

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Keep your eyes on grafs and sons, and powder Valley. They always seem to have it. Look for the specials as they are frequent,.. No hazmat, free shipping and VV puts out rebate programs through out the year.. 

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Sport pistol! I have tried titegroup and N320, and sport pistol is just a better powder in terms of weighing pros and cons. Cheaper, only slightly more dirty than n320(you have to shoot a lot to know) and it doesn’t burn as hot as titegroup. Try some, you won’t regret it.

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On 2/11/2020 at 12:34 PM, HesedTech said:

Sport Pistol works great. 
 

Recently heard Shooters World Clean Shot is also a good and economical alternative. 

 

Tried Clean Shot last year and never went back (TG). Super fine powder and meters excellent. 

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Tried Clean Shot last year and never went back (TG). Super fine powder and meters excellent. 



Agreed.... 3.8gr pushing a 125 is a load I won’t be changing anytime soon!!


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Despite how dirty it can be, I’m still a big fan of Titegroup, but W231 and HP38 are really great. I’m really interested in trying Sport Pistol.


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CFE Pistol. 4.0 grains 1.135 OAL. 147flat point SNS or Gallant .356 
920-930 fps out of 5” barrel at 3k elevation 

slower burning than TG and i rally like the slide action. Cleans up off pistol fairly easy as well. 

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On 2/11/2020 at 2:38 PM, rooster said:

N320 is in stock at Brownells. Sport pistol is a good alternative, but it is no where as clean as 320. Here is the best website on 9mm that I have found. There is a huge amount of info.

http://www.natoreloading.com/

 

That is a great website for powder comparisons! Very informative. It confirms why people like the VV320 so much.

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Winchester 244 is really good too. It's a relatively new powder, but I like it for my minor loads. Titegroup is something you don't want to use with coated bullets cause it actually will burn off the coating because of the nitrate that is in it I believe. Apparently that can lead to fouling in your barrel from what I have heard. Besides, 244 isn't nearly as snappy as Titegroup.

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Second that. Have been playing with 244 in numerous bullets weights for 9mm and always single digit SDs and smaller groups no matter what powder level. Not as high of velocities as some but very consistent.

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Tried a few hundred rounds with the 244 powder and this is what I observed. Out of all the different powders I have shot over the years I have never seen flames while shooting. I did with the 244. Another observation is this is a really dense powder. I have a unique tek micrometer powder bar and I needed to close it down to number 8 to get 3.8 grains. The cavity is almost closed. This means it’s really easy to double charge a case, metered fine, accuracy was good, I did not chrono, was pretty clean, and price was good.

 

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I use and like N320 but have worked up Sport Pistol loads for 9mm and 40 major.  SP is half the price and just as good.  When my N320 is gone it won't be replaced, and I am stockpiling SP in the interim.

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20 hours ago, Sfisch0311 said:

Titegroup is something you don't want to use with coated bullets cause it actually will burn off the coating

I believe TG is OK for HiTech coatings. It is not recommended for Precision bullets which have a proprietary coating. I've used it anyway and never really had serious leading problems in 45ACP.

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Give Shooters World Clean Shot a try... I’m running 4.1 gr with a 124gr PD JHP for 130/131pf in a Shadow 2and 139/140 in a 14.5” PCC.

 

It shoots softer, cleaner, more consistent, and cooler than any TG load I found at same PF. 

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