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Canting pistol

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Hi guys, I've been out of the scene for a while.  Shot my last comp (IDPA) in 2013 or so, shot well enough to win sharpshooter class and kinda hung up the hat for a bit.  

I went shooting with a few friends recently and noticed a bunch of dudes cant their guns.  Especially single handed shooting.  I asked them about it and I guess E. Langdon teaches that.  I always did a classic vertical grip.  

What is the rationale on this?  I get the biomechanics part, but does it really trump predictable recoil, drive to next target, better/more accurate sight picture?  Obviously it works for Langdon, could work for many others.  

Thanks in advance. 

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It seems to work for me in single handed shooting. I dont cant much, though. When using only one hand, the biomechanics help with the recoil. It is still predictable but not the same as straight up. With a slight cant, sight picture is still easy.

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I cant slightly when shooting right-hand-only because it feels more natural. I cant more when shooting left-hand-only in order to help bring the sights in front of my dominant right eye.

However, if I'm shooting bullseye or other precision, I don't cant at all.

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I think it kind of naturally happens if you dont intentionally keep it vertical. I don't imagine there's really any mechanical advantage to it, but if there is I'd love to hear it. I just don't like the idea of changing how the gun behaves (diagonal recoil) for my one handed vs two handed shooting so I try to keep them as similar as possible.

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It's easier (more relaxed) on the forearm and wrist.

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I don't cant it at all no matter which hand or hands I have on it.  I found I have better trigger control and much faster recoil recovery in SHO and WHO with the pistol as vertical as possible.

 

To get my dominant (right) eye aligned with the sights (dot) )in WHO, I turn my head sideways slightly to the left.

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There are two schools of thought - those who cant and those who don't. 

 

The pros for canting is that the arm and wrist are in their natural positions, allowing for better recoil control. The con is that the recoil is diagonal so it changes the follow up shots when shooting fast, which might or might not be a concern based on how fast your follow ups are and how much you've practiced. 

 

The pros for keeping it vertical is that it matches your two handed grip and that the recoil supposedly goes straight up, which is not really the case because it requires a support hand for the recoil to go up, so you still end up with off-center recoil. The con is that it's not the ergonomic position when you're using just one hand. 

 

To compare the two, consider that the bullseye shooters use straight gun, but they also rotate body completely and don't care about the recoil. Action shooters tend to experiment and figure out which way gives them better control for transitions and follow up shots. Remember though that even if you keep it straight up, the recoil will push sideways because you don't have your support hand to direct it straight upwards. 

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3 hours ago, IVC said:

The con is that it's not the ergonomic position when you're using just one hand.

 

When I extend my arm my wrist doesn't rotate inwards.  It stays vertical.

 

How is canting the gun "ergonomic"?

Edited by SGT_Schultz

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5 hours ago, IVC said:

To compare the two, consider that the bullseye shooters use straight gun, but they also rotate body completely and don't care about the recoil. 

I assume because tilting a gun affects the point of impact, bullseye shooters will use a straight gun because that is what their gun is sighted for.

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9 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

When I extend my arm my wrist doesn't rotate inwards.  It stays vertical.

 

How is canting the gun "ergonomic"?

 

Perhaps our physiques are different.

If I extend or punch my hand forward, without trying to angle it a certain way, it doesn't end up in a vertical position.

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21 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

When I extend my arm my wrist doesn't rotate inwards.  It stays vertical.

 

How is canting the gun "ergonomic"?

The standard shooting position is with elbows slightly rotated to the outside, which cants the hands and creates canceling torque on the gun when shooting two-handed. This cancelling torque comes from the shoulders and is what keeps the gun in straight up-down position during recoil. 

 

If your hand stays vertical, your elbows must be pointed straight down - this is what bullseye shooters do, but they rotate the body to make it ergonomic. If you try it in front of your body while facing the target is't not the stable position. 

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On 2/13/2020 at 2:17 PM, IVC said:

The standard shooting position is with elbows slightly rotated to the outside, which cants the hands and creates canceling torque on the gun when shooting two-handed. This cancelling torque comes from the shoulders and is what keeps the gun in straight up-down position during recoil. 

 

If your hand stays vertical, your elbows must be pointed straight down - this is what bullseye shooters do, but they rotate the body to make it ergonomic. If you try it in front of your body while facing the target is't not the stable position. 

 

There's more than one way to do this.  The way you describe is one way, not the way.

Edited by SGT_Schultz

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4 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

There's more than one way to do this.  The way you describe is one way, not the way.

Agreed, but it would be more useful if you described the technique you had on your mind...

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