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Camera for improvement?


Latham44
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I'm just wondering how you all feel about using a camera for improvement?  This year will be my first actual competitive shooting and I do want to improve.  I'm taking a lesson from Bob Vogel so he can tell me my weak points and what I need to work on. I do shoot weekly at the range, but I'd like to have someone film me so I can actually see the differences.  Do you think I'd be wasting time filming myself?

Edited by Latham44
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look into practice, dont be "that guy"
IE the one messing around with doodads, getting in the way, expecting people to wait, not ready when called to line,  expecting people to reset your targets for you, too busy with gadgets to tape and reset your share,
seems anytime I have ever seen anyone worried about a camera, it's "that guy".
Film your practice,  leave the cameras at home on match day. 

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This seems like a good topic to tie my question into.  Once you have a camera, what's the best way to mount the camera (securely) to film?  On the cover of the USPSA magazine, I see Ben running Nationals with a cap mounted camera. 

 

I've also seen some camera mounts that almost mount on your shoulder, a chest rig will not have a good point of view is what I am thinking. 

 

So, what the best way to record matches once you have a camera?

 

Edited to add that my camera of choice was a GoPro 7 Black.  There are a lot of cameras out there, pick one and get after it.

Edited by Clay1
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look into practice, dont be "that guy"
IE the one messing around with doodads, getting in the way, expecting people to wait, not ready when called to line,  expecting people to reset your targets for you, too busy with gadgets to tape and reset your share,
seems anytime I have ever seen anyone worried about a camera, it's "that guy".
Film your practice,  leave the cameras at home on match day. 
I'm not sure who the heck shoots at your matches but I've never experienced what you describe. I will venture that who you describe, their actions have nothing to do with filming. They're just d-bags.

Hat literally takes 1 second to push a button to start recording. This can be done while you're on deck. Another second to turn off recording.

And as I mentioned earlier, 3rd person video is better. It takes no effort for the shooter or distract from resetting to hand your phone to someone in the squad to film your run.

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This seems like a good topic to tie my question into.  Once you have a camera, what's the best way to mount the camera (securely) to film?  On the cover of the USPSA magazine, I see Ben running Nationals with a cap mounted camera. 
 
I've also seen some camera mounts that almost mount on your shoulder, a chest rig will not have a good point of view is what I am thinking. 
 
So, what the best way to record matches once you have a camera?
 
Edited to add that my camera of choice was a GoPro 7 Black.  There are a lot of cameras out there, pick one and get after it.
If you're running a gopro, hat cam mount is the probably the most practical. Is out of the way. Easy to start/stop recording and give a great 1st person perspective.

If you want 3rd person, you can get one of those gorilla mounts and mount it some place up range that gives a good vantage but no risk of getting shot. Do this when you 1st get to the stage. Turn it on. Leave it till your squad is done. Take it down. Rinse and repeat on the next stage.

Or you can just hand it to someone on your squad and have them film your run.

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I've got a great setup that I copied from another shooter. The Mobius Pro mini velcro'ed onto a money clip. Slim package, easy to operate, and very affordable. Fits tight right on the bill of your hat, no screws or cuts required. 

Edited by Acclaym
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the hat cam approach, will give you very little feedback,  again, mainly a distracting gadget. Go look at the numerous posts online with that view and ask yourself if you can really learn something from that.
If you can swing 3rd person without being a distraction to others and pulling your weight, go for it . Could be possible,  

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I can see the benefits of the hat cam when it comes to watching my hand movements when it comes to splits and transitions, maybe even reloads but I would like to see my complete draw on the start and watch my own movement.  It would be beneficial to see how I leave and enter a shooting position.  Right now, I know I need to brush up my dancing skills. 

 

One thought that I had is that if someone else likes to be recorded as well, I could record both of our runs and and share the video.  Like a team effort. 

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For myself I found having someone record me with my phone during the match has really helped me to See when I do things that I didnt even know I was doing/not doing. I think I am staying low, but low and behold I am standing almost vertical in the video. Pausing and not moving while in my head I was moving. ect..

 

I would say have someone record you with a Phone and review it as much as you can. Dont go spending money on hat cams, eyeglass cams ect.  they are not that helpful until you have everything else down. Even then they are more for "the Gram" then anything

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The fad of wearing a head cam is thankfully going away around here. Those wearing GoPros on their head reminded me of the Mickey Mouse club.You are not likely to benefit from seeing your gun fire.

 

Third party videos can show you where you need to work on movement, positioning, speed, etc. However even those need to be rare. Its a PITA too have people asking you constantly to video you. For my closest friends who I know are looking for something specific and don't do it constantly, sure it makes sense. Perfect strangers FU. I aint your freaking caddy.

 

The idea that if I could just see myself I would soon be a Master is just wrong headed. You don't need video.. You need practice and maybe some lessons from a qualified, recognized instructor.Dont waste time and money on cameras. Spend it on dry fire, practice, and good instruction.

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On 2/6/2020 at 10:12 PM, anonymouscuban said:

If you want 3rd person, you can get one of those gorilla mounts and mount it some place up range that gives a good vantage but no risk of getting shot. Do this when you 1st get to the stage. Turn it on. Leave it till your squad is done. Take it down. Rinse and repeat on the next stage.




 

Absolute horrible idea
Good way for your  camera to have an "accident"
Dont think people gonna take to kindly to being filmed. May not even be legal or IAW range or match rules,
So then that leaves you fiddle farting with a camera holding up the match when its your turn to shoot, and when you are getting done.
IF I was RO and called the shooter and I got a "Hold on " let me dick around with my gadget first. Id clear the range and call the next shooter.

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I find it amusing the topics that we choose to debate. Something as simple as a query about the merits of videoing yourself and methods of doing so.

Maybe the anti sentiment is regional. Around my parts, just about everyone records their runs. Either hatcam or 3rd party. Most of the guys I squad with are usuals so it's not an imposition if they ask me to record them.

Me, my wife attends all my matches so she records my runs. She also volunteers to record others. Keep in mind, these are level 1 club matches. I think things change a bit when you're referring to larger matches.

As for the suggestion of setting up a camera up range, it was a mere suggestion. Not something you'd do at every match nor every stage. Its something you would do more for the novelty of having video from a cool perspective of you and your friends shooting the same stage.

Again. Dude asked for opinions on the merits of video and I gave him options. Its helped me to improve. And some of the biggest names in this sport advocate for the advantages of video recording oneself. I think we can all agree that there is a time and place to do so. Also goes without saying that it should never interfere with the flow of a match.

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49 minutes ago, anonymouscuban said:

I find it amusing the topics that we choose to debate. Something as simple as a query about the merits of videoing yourself and methods of doing so.

Maybe the anti sentiment is regional. Around my parts, just about everyone records their runs. Either hatcam or 3rd party. Most of the guys I squad with are usuals so it's not an imposition if they ask me to record them.

Me, my wife attends all my matches so she records my runs. She also volunteers to record others. Keep in mind, these are level 1 club matches. I think things change a bit when you're referring to larger matches.

As for the suggestion of setting up a camera up range, it was a mere suggestion. Not something you'd do at every match nor every stage. Its something you would do more for the novelty of having video from a cool perspective of you and your friends shooting the same stage.

Again. Dude asked for opinions on the merits of video and I gave him options. Its helped me to improve. And some of the biggest names in this sport advocate for the advantages of video recording oneself. I think we can all agree that there is a time and place to do so. Also goes without saying that it should never interfere with the flow of a match.
 

 

I shoot will all kinds, up through M & GM guys and some professionals too, predominately in Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, & Missouri.  They all film most of the time.  Everyone knows where everyone else is in the shooting order so as not to impose on somebody on deck or in the hole.  It has never been an issue. This is not a hard concept to grasp.  We all film each other.  A few of the top M & GM guys do exactly what you suggest and put a GoPro out in the stage to get another perspective for them.  That's a great idea & tool to use.  It has never slowed anything down and has never been an issue.  I shot Level 2s and Level 3s last year.  Shooters filmed each other and it was never an issue.  I shot Lo-Cap Nationals in November.  Shooters filmed each other and it was never an issue.  There were some USPSA hierarchy in our squad  at Nationals and they had actual legit video gear and were filming everyone.  Not an issue in any form or fashion.  

 

The OP asked for some advice, which is what this place is about. You gave legit & valid advice, well done.

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  • 9 months later...

Video is very helpful imho.  Most of the time, in almost every sport, what we think we are doing is not reality.  Obviously, practice, both live and dry, are more important to improvement, if you know what to improve upon.
 I think 3rd person is the most valuable but I use 1st quite a bit as well.  I put both together so I can see, review both perspectives.

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