Need help knocking burrs off outside of 9mm cases during resizing

[looking4reloadingdeals]

Sounds like you don't have enough crimp.  Brass indenting the bullet shouldn't have much effect in the practical shooting world.

Hesedtech reply above is correct. If you go too crazy with indentations on the surface of coated bullets it can start to scrape the coating off. If I go with more crimp than I have now, I would be worried it would start to shave off the coating

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[looking4reloadingdeals]

First many of us find this to be untrue, especially with coated and plated bullets. Tumbling often happens as a result of indented bullets.
 
Second the OP doesn’t mention which dies and powder funnel are being used. I found the Lee Sizing and taper crimp dies pretty much smooth it all out. Many of us use the MBF powder funnel, but that won’t work with the Lee powder drop. Maybe use the NOE expander prior to the powder drop? I’ve had good luck with it in the past. 
 
For 9 mm I found the Dillon taper crimp die gives me the smoothest taper crimp possible.  
 
Keep posting your progress. 

Im using lee resizing die, Hornady powder funnel, rcbs seating die, and Hornady taper crimp die. This combination came from swapping dies in and out until I got the best results and the least amount of rejects


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[looking4reloadingdeals]

What gauge are you using?
 
Do your reloads fit in your barrel?

Using an RCBS single case gauge almost every one (maybe 90-95/100) will not fit in the gauge. About 10-15/100 will not even point test in my barrel without deburring. I just got a shock bottle gauge, and have done a production run while having it yet, but just tossing in ammo that passed the plunk test, about 5-7/1000 fail the shock bottle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sarge]

3 minutes ago, looking4reloadingdeals said:

Using an RCBS single case gauge almost every one (maybe 90-95/100) will not fit in the gauge. About 10-15/100 will not even point test in my barrel without deburring. I just got a shock bottle gauge, and have done a production run while having it yet, but just tossing in ammo that passed the plunk test, about 5-7/1000 fail the shock bottle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like just a tad more crimp is needed. 

[Nolan]

Do you de-prime before you clean the brass?  If so maybe the burr is created by the de-priming die.

 

If not, is this brass fired only out of your gun or mixed range pick up?  If only out of your gun, what gun and what about your gun is causing the burr?  Short chamber and poorly cut leade?

 

Nolan

 

 

 

 

 

[looking4reloadingdeals]

Kind of hard to get a good picture of this, but this is the crease caused by my current crimp setting where there is still a noticeable bur. There is a crisp line that goes around the entire bullet. This round failed Lyman gauge, barely passed cz barrel plunk test, passes Glock plunk and shock bottle gauge easily. More adjustments and pictures to come


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[looking4reloadingdeals]

This is with the die turned ~1/5th turn. Still a small burr.


Another 1/5th turn, similar mark on bullet. Bullet swaged from .357” down to .3545”. Failed all except shock bottle somehow


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HesedTech]

Looking at the pulled bullet crimping more may cause accuracy issues. What is the diameter? .356, .357, .358?

 

Could it be you are using .357 or .358? If so they often cause more troubles with gauging.

 

Edit:

 

I see you added the .357 and yes they are harder to make work.

 

I have a Hornady crimp die and for me the crimps are not as smooth as the Dillon. What happen was it took more "crimp" to get the same results as the Dillon and thus dented my coated bullets way too much. The Lee taper crimp die (not the Factor Crimp) worked similar to the Dillon.

 

I found the Hornady bullet seating die pressed the bullet in place straighter than Dillon, Lee and even the super expensive Redding Comp (yes I have one).

In 40 SW the basic Dillon worked the best for seating.

 

One more edit:

This is the die set I found works with all the range brass (CBC is a pain) and bullets I've tested (coated up to .358 however I use .356 Precision Bullet & ACME for coated, ) and have run close to 30K with the combo.

 

Dillon sizing die (Lee works too)

MBF Powder funnel

Hornady Seating with Micro adjust (although really not needed)

Dillon taper crimp die

 

This combo just works and cranks out round after round with almost zero failures in Shockbottle gauge.

 

Some times one has to try various dies to find the optimal one for the combination of products being used. Yes the $$$ add up.

 

Keep at it, eventually you will have a nearly perfect and consistent load.

Hope all this helps.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by HesedTech

[looking4reloadingdeals]

 

This was using the lee crimp die, nothing else changed. You can see in the third picture it looks like it scraped the brass off the case (must’ve been why I stopped using it originally). I got very similar results with with the lee as you can see, a decent mark in the coating, swaging of the bullet, but no burr left on the case. Failed Lyman gauge, passed shock bottle and plunk tested in cz and Glock barrel.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mpssrh]

I would completely disassemble all 4 dies, inspect them carefully, and clean them thoroughly...then reinstall them to see if that made a difference.

 

Another way to approach the problem would be to substitute a die--one at a time--to see if you can identify the culprit.

  

[looking4reloadingdeals]

Do you de-prime before you clean the brass?  If so maybe the burr is created by the de-priming die.
 
If not, is this brass fired only out of your gun or mixed range pick up?  If only out of your gun, what gun and what about your gun is causing the burr?  Short chamber and poorly cut leade?
 
Nolan
 
 
 
 
 

Nolan, it’s mixed range brass. Usually most of the same brass gets used over and over since it’ll get cleaned resized/deprimed, then dumped back into the top of the buckets.

I tumble then resize/deprime, then send them through the walnut media to get the lube off


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[looking4reloadingdeals]

I would completely disassemble all 4 dies, inspect them carefully, and clean them thoroughly...then reinstall them to see if that made a difference.
 
Another way to approach the problem would be to substitute a die--one at a time--to see if you can identify the culprit.
  

What would I be looking for specifically?

The dies were all cleaned in that way probably about 5k rounds ago when they were run through my unlrasonic cleaner (I was still having problems before I did that). All except maybe the resizer which has probably seen closer to 10k, but most times I start a new batch of resizing I’ll take the stem out and run a paper towel or two through the die to get out any left over media or anything out of the die.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HesedTech]

I've experienced the same marks on the brass from the Lee crimp die and is one of the reasons I don't use it. I believe it's because of the lack of smoothness in the die near the  top of the taper. 

 

BTW are you committed to .357 bullets? If not, if not shoot em up and try .356.

 

Personally out of multiple guns I found little to no difference in accuracy or leading between .356 - .358. what I did find was .356 had far less problems than the others and accuracy quality was more about the powder charge than diameter. I believe the standard size for Blues is .355 and people load and love em. 

Edited February 5, 2020 by HesedTech

[HesedTech]

Ok here's some pics of my standard 9MM 147 ACME (Precision Bullets are identical) load .356 that works in all our guns.

 

Notice no indent on bullet.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by HesedTech
Larger Image for detail

[looking4reloadingdeals]

I've experienced the same marks on the brass from the Lee crimp die and is one of the reasons I don't use it. I believe it's because of the lack of smoothness in the die near the  top of the taper. 
 
BTW are you committed to .357 bullets? If not, if not shoot em up and try .356.
 
Personally out of multiple guns I found little to no difference in accuracy or leading between .356 - .358. what I did find was .356 had far less problems than the others and accuracy quality was more about the powder charge than diameter. I believe the standard size for Blues is .355 and people load and love em. 

I had these same problems while using blue bullets, and didn’t end up using them since they were more expensive.

I have better luck with Everglades .356”, but still experienced these same problems at about 50% of the rate of coated. However, I didn’t adjust my crimp and had much less of a mark on the bullet and had room to bring it down more which I think would help a bit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[looking4reloadingdeals]

HesedTech, normally when I am setting up my crimp I will go for no marks on my bullets, or a very light line across it. I put more crimp on the dummies I built up to show that I think there is a problem more with the burr than I do that I need more crimp on the round since even with a heavy crimp it’s not perfect


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chevrofreak]

1 hour ago, HesedTech said:

I've experienced the same marks on the brass from the Lee crimp die and is one of the reasons I don't use it. I believe it's because of the lack of smoothness in the die near the  top of the taper. 

 

BTW are you committed to .357 bullets? If not, if not shoot em up and try .356.

 

Personally out of multiple guns I found little to no difference in accuracy or leading between .356 - .358. what I did find was .356 had far less problems than the others and accuracy quality was more about the powder charge than diameter. I believe the standard size for Blues is .355 and people load and love em. 

The Lee FCD will leave that mark as its adjustable crimp section engages the case, but the die will crimp sufficiently with that backed completely off in my experience. 

[HesedTech]

Ok I went back to the first post and I have to ask, is the bur before or after sizing?
 

You said the bur was on all your brass so you need to identify when in the process the bur occurs. 
 

Inspect brass pre-process to make sure there are no burs.

Run through first die and inspect. I assume your first process stage is de-capping and sizing in one step. 
Inspect brass, is there a bur? Yes, then you found the problem. No move to next step, seating primer. Yes, No continue...
 

You get the idea. 
 

The mystery grows. 

[4n2t0]

How did you determine the OAL? I seriously doubt a small burr is causing all these issues. Also, load a different bullet and see if your problem goes away.

[looking4reloadingdeals]

How did you determine the OAL? I seriously doubt a small burr is causing all these issues. Also, load a different bullet and see if your problem goes away.

My OAL is short at 1.100”. I determined ‘tis by using the plunk test. It could have been longer if it wasn’t for my cz which is the one that needed it so short.
When I use Everglades 147 plated bullets the problem is about cut in half, but still happens on 5-7/100 rounds


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[4n2t0]

How much flare are you giving the cases? I know it might be difficult but can you provide us with a picture of the burrs? Does the problem only occur with certain brass brands?

Edited February 5, 2020 by 4n2t0

[looking4reloadingdeals]

Ok I went back to the first post and I have to ask, is the bur before or after sizing?
 
You said the bur was on all your brass so you need to identify when in the process the bur occurs. 
 
Inspect brass pre-process to make sure there are no burs.
Run through first die and inspect. I assume your first process stage is de-capping and sizing in one step. 
Inspect brass, is there a bur? Yes, then you found the problem. No move to next step, seating primer. Yes, No continue...
 
You get the idea. 
 
The mystery grows. 

The burr is on my brass before and after resizing. I often find the burr on the brass right after it comes off the range sometimes. I notice it right off the range on some range pick ups and some range pick ups. It is sometimes on factory ammo as well.

Maybe it’s time to go shoot some new brass and see what happens.

I also just got a 5gal bucket I’m about to start working through from my local shop, I’ll go through that and see if there is any difference


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[looking4reloadingdeals]

How much flare are you giving the cases? I know it might be difficult but can you provide us with a picture of the burrs? Does the problem only occur with certain brass brands?

Sadly no, it doesn’t occur on only one brand. I use the bare minimum flare I can get by with and keep it as minimal as possible. I will attempt to get some pictures tonight


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[looking4reloadingdeals]

One thing I was thinking about last night after I finished tinkering, would backing the lee die off a little bit to reduce the indent in the coating, but keeping it so that it scraps a little brass off be beneficial? I started thinking that it would basically be the same as putting a slight deburr on the case, and might actually be exactly what I’m looking for. Or do you think there’s something else going on that I’m still missing? Thoughts?

I remember now that I originally stopped using the lee as I was getting a small build up of brass shavings on my shell plate, and that’s when I moved to the Hornady. I was still having some problems before I made that switch though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[m700]

In case I missed it are you Lubing?

 

To eliminate the burr as the underlying cause. Could you try and gently take it off with a deburring tool(you still want the case to have a square top and not be chaferred).  If you just do 100 or so and load em up and test them.  I dont believe that can be causing your problem but I could be wrong.

 

A lot of other good ideas have been stated. Clean/oil dies is an important thing to do every so often. If you clean and debur and still have an issue I would try a larger flare or possibly a complete new set of dies.