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Bull Barrels Illegal in Single Stack?


BangSwitch
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BUL Armory's 1911 pistols look very interesting.  They certainly are unique.  
They are promoted as being an IPSC competition gun. but I guess their bull barrel's make them illegal in the USPSA single stack division.  
Would it fly in Limited 10 or another division?

bul-trophy-ipsc-saw-2-tone-gold-_.jpg

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BUL Armory's 1911 pistols look very interesting.  They certainly are unique.  
They are promoted as being an IPSC competition gun. but I guess their bull barrel's make them illegal in the USPSA single stack division.  
Would it fly in Limited 10 or another division?
bul-trophy-ipsc-saw-2-tone-gold-_.jpg.245538763630254061e4a19328540fa9.jpg
Limited, limited 10, open. You'd be fine

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

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USPSA rules, APPENDIX D5 –Single-Stack Division:

"""

Cone and flanged barrels are not allowed. All barrels must have a bushing installed, regardless of barrel diameter.This does not apply to pistols having a barrel length of 4.20 inches or less.

"""

I've seen  pictures of very heavy cylindrical barrels that have a bushing..... The Bul isn't it.

(IPSC rules do not have this restriction for the Classic Division)

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FYI, I had a local gunsmith turn my Kimber with a bull barrel into a busing system by turning the barrel down, adding a busing, and adding a cut into the frame to secure the bushing. Works great, so if you really want a Bul, there is an option.

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I have been in touch Gilbert @ GP Arms - the BUL distributor.  
He imports guns with bushing barrels for USPSA single stack competition.  Although 95% of the BUL 1911 photos on the web show a bull barrel, bushing guns are available for the asking.  

 

Here's a screen cap of bushing trophy SAW ripped from Shooters Connection.

 

Trophy_SAW[1].jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have never understood why that rule is still in effect.  There is no competitive or accuracy advantage gained between the two barrel systems. 

 

It does make it easier for taking the pistol apart. 

 

Some folks argue that it is a weight advantage but the pistol has a weight limit and size limit already per "APPENDIX D5 – Single-Stack Division".

 

7.     Maximum size Handgun and all magazines Yes, handgun with empty magazine inserted must fit wholly within a box with internal dimensions of 8 15/16” x 6” x 1 5/8”

         (tolerance +1/16”, -0”) (8.938” x 6” x 1.625”) (227.01mm x 152.40mm x 41.28mm)

 

18.     Maximum weight    Yes, 43 ounces with empty magazine

 

This needs changed.

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43 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

I have never understood why that rule is still in effect.  There is no competitive or accuracy advantage gained between the two barrel systems. 

 

It does make it easier for taking the pistol apart. 

 

Some folks argue that it is a weight advantage but the pistol has a weight limit and size limit already per "APPENDIX D5 – Single-Stack Division".

 

7.     Maximum size Handgun and all magazines Yes, handgun with empty magazine inserted must fit wholly within a box with internal dimensions of 8 15/16” x 6” x 1 5/8”

         (tolerance +1/16”, -0”) (8.938” x 6” x 1.625”) (227.01mm x 152.40mm x 41.28mm)

 

18.     Maximum weight    Yes, 43 ounces with empty magazine

 

This needs changed.

Ahh but perceived advantages make people believe existing guns are no longer competitive,  as to your point why change the rule to allow guns that are no more competitive? do they cost less? are they easier to find?  

If the answer is they are cheaper and easier to come buy, then I agree lowering the bar of entry to the division is a good idea. 

But bull barreled 1911s tend to be on the more expensive less available end of the scale, so I see no advantage to the sport to make them legal 

If as you say there is no advantage to one why would you want to spend the extra money on one?

If you believe it is an advantage however small, then you also believe that it would make existing guns obsolete, I fail to see how this is better for the sport.

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There's a reason Limited guns nearly all have bull barrels and it's not to make them easier to disassemble.

 

Even with a weight limit in SS, the weight can move around and where the weight is does matter.

 

I would be ok with a rule change, because I think the any-bushing-counts ruling was done wrong, but would change my barrels then too.

 

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Bushing barrels are legal for Limited also the weight difference really comes to play since limited allows 6" guns. 

 

Take down of a bull barrel is only easier than a bushing if you have a hole in your guide rod.

 

Bull barrels are easier to fit also.

 

Using a tungsten bull barrel in single stack is not practical due to the weight limit and would require external slide machining to make the weight which is not allowed.

 

The weight of a gun helps to soften recoil, the extra weight in a bull barrel does little to help with recoil especially shooting major.

 

I have a fixture I used to compare muzzle jump on different comps that I was designing which measured the amount of lift of gun after firing.  I fix a bull barrel into my SS years ago and tested the gun using both barrels, I could not get any repeatable results between the two that showed a difference.

 

So I believe if you want to use a bull or a bushing the weight and size limit of single stack is enough to control any competitive advantage.

 

My two cents worth.

 

Edited by Godzilla
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On 2/2/2020 at 7:59 PM, BangSwitch said:

BUL Armory's 1911 pistols look very interesting.  They certainly are unique.  
They are promoted as being an IPSC competition gun. but I guess their bull barrel's make them illegal in the USPSA single stack division.  
Would it fly in Limited 10 or another division?

bul-trophy-ipsc-saw-2-tone-gold-_.jpg

Absolutely NOTHING unique about that gun other than some cosmetic, and probably sharp useless cuts.
Why  try to be difficult ? just pic up a legal for SS 1911,,, only about a gazzillion out there.

Oh and as far as break down ? I have a 6 inch bull, but I use a reverse plug and a GI +1" style guide rod, no problems at all taking it down. No hole no tools,

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They sell those down in the Philippines for IPSC where a bull barrel is legal (Classic Division).

 

I've got a 1911 in 38 Super that I shoot in minor. Can't tell the difference between that and my 9mm 2011 at home while shooting - aside from having to reload it twice as much!

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I am unable to upload pictures due to size restrictions;

 

A person can smartly remove a large sum of weight from 1911 slide with minimal to no 'external change'.

 

Bull barrels are not traditional. Frankly, singlestack should be limited to 38super and 45acp. Bushing barrels and GI size. On the principals that nascar applied for many years with carburetors and distributors. Sticking to roots.

 

Sadly, I am not the governing body. Because it would be, if I were. Minimum of 175pf and those two calibers.

 

Person could get really racy.. with offset cut pins+extended dwell, altered feed ramps, tungsten barrel sleeve(bull barrel). List goes on. Though, it seems a lot more people are interested in open raceguns.

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11 hours ago, Godzilla said:

...

 

Take down of a bull barrel is only easier than a bushing if you have a hole in your guide rod.

 

...

 

 

Why do you need a hole in the guide rod?

 

My bull barrel gun (picture several posts up) does not need a hole and paper clip to take apart and put together.

- take out slide latch, take the slide off, springs and full length guide rod come out, take out the reverse plug, remove barrel

- do it in the reverse order to put it back together. Secure the spring and guide rod with your hand while putting the slide on the frame

Edited by perttime
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