Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

PCC and Props


CrashDodson

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 60
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

2 hours ago, Ontos said:

I’ll just shoot it like this...

 

Bring it. 🤷🏻‍♂️

532B2CED-FF3C-4DE8-A8F6-554D3CC7A071.jpeg

nothing wrong with that. I had a stage with a similar concept at our last section match, and I made sure the object to be carries was something that both  rifle and pistol shooters would realistically be able to carry while still shooting with both hands if they chose to do something that slow and dumb (it might or might not be slow and dumb for a particular stage design, depending on the difficulty of the targets).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/14/2020 at 1:30 PM, CrashDodson said:

image.png.a57aa88166614b6d6a84803c179b1a68.png

Just saw this posted on facebook.

 

Is this stage legal?  Can you just makeup how you are going to apply procedural?  If you were shooting PCC what would you do?

 

 

I don't think the last sentence in the stage procedure is legal.  You can't make up how procedurals are applied, this is spelled out in the rulebook in 10.2.2:  "A competitor who fails to comply with the procedure specified in the written stage briefing will incur one procedural penalty for each occurrence. However, if a competitor has gained a significant advantage during non-compliance, the competitor may be assessed one procedural penalty for each shot fired, instead of a single penalty (e.g. firing multiple shots contrary to the required position or stance)."

 

It would be a significant advantage to not move the case at all, but even if applying procedurals per shot it would still just be one procedural since it says case must be on barrel B before last shot.  The legal way to create a stronger penalty for not moving the case would instead be to say case must be on barrel B before engaging the last 2 (or 4 or 6, etc.) targets, instead of just before the last shot.  Then you'd have more per shot procedurals you could assess.  Or the even better way to fix this issue is to not create dumb stages like this... 😉

Link to comment
Share on other sites

image.png.a57aa88166614b6d6a84803c179b1a68.png Just saw this posted on facebook.   Is this stage legal?  Can you just makeup how you are going to apply procedural?  If you were shooting PCC what would you do?

 

 

 

 

That looks like it was designed by a limited shooter. 18 rounds while carrying something.  

When your stage design process starts with "wouldn't it be cool if...", It's generally not a good idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/12/2020 at 6:37 PM, Schutzenmeister said:

 

But remember ... You can keep your doctor!  😈


The only people I see routinely saying stages have to be changed are non-PCC shooters. 
 

Whether it’s the rope thing or carrying something, you can still do it with a PCC. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Ontos said:


The only people I see routinely saying stages have to be changed are non-PCC shooters. 
 

Whether it’s the rope thing or carrying something, you can still do it with a PCC. 

I would like it if that were the case, but RadarTech's post from jan 31 appears to contradict your assertion. If Troy (who shot pcc the last time I saw him shoot a match) says we can no longer hold onto a rope with one hand while shooting with the other, then it appears that the requirements for legal stages have changed due to the introduction of PCC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would like it if that were the case, but RadarTech's post from jan 31 appears to contradict your assertion. If Troy (who shot pcc the last time I saw him shoot a match) says we can no longer hold onto a rope with one hand while shooting with the other, then it appears that the requirements for legal stages have changed due to the introduction of PCC.


One specific thing to mention...
The gist of the conversation I had with Troy summarized: if a requirement of the stage requires or it incentivizes you to shoot better one handed it is against the rules.


This part is mine: So while a great shooter can handle his/her PCC ONE HANDED and can shoot safely without issue that does not address the majority of other shooters..

I consider that new shooter that is shooting his first match or his first major or her first or a junior without the experience shown in this thread— who takes the hit if a round goes over the berm or creates holes in someone?
Yea that is on the shooter, but what will the public see? Who will catch fault? The sport? The MD? The RM? The stage designer? Our rules put that squarely on the range master of the event...

IMHO- we are debating a safety rule in this thread from the perspective of super man shooter #1– or maybe someone who has a great deal of experience.. I can do it, so no one should have a problem with it... that is great, I’m glad for you! But the RM has to consider all the others at the match for everyone’s safety....

In the end- if you break out any match- 70% or higher will be those C and D shooters... and we have to make sure the stages are safe for all....

Continuing the thought of not changing the stages—-
Tell me the last time we saw an obstacle with a support that you had to climb as covered by 2.2.2... you know a 4 foot knee wall or ramp steep enough you need to grab a rope to go over it? With all the older, and less skilled shooters- who would do this now?

The sport has changed a lot since it started. I can point to stories where a Cooper tunnel was 3 ft high or lower inside it... and some older shooters have laughed at todays cooper tunnels...

I just know one thing— in the end if I’m running the match I know safety is of the primary importance.. then following the rules, then making sure it is fun!

If we can’t be safe, it doesn’t matter if the rules are not followed... and if we are not safe, and using legal stages, will anything else even matter ?
Would that even follow the premise of the sport?

I’m sure there are those that will disagree with me...
and that’s fine—
I hope to see ya on the range and we can debate it sometime while watching shooters do crazy things no one intended...

—-range is clear—-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RadarTech said:

 


One specific thing to mention...
The gist of the conversation I had with Troy summarized: if a requirement of the stage requires or it incentivizes you to shoot better one handed it is against the rules.
 

 

 

thanks for the extra clarification. the bolded part is the part that I think makes it appear that troy, Mike Foley and others just totally lied to us about introducing pcc as a new division. Right up there with the 'you can keep your doctor' lie that other regimes have used. If pcc can't use the same rules and the same stages we have always used, then imho, they should be in their own standalone matches (which I would probably shoot). I have nothing against pcc, but I am very much against the watering down and pussification of handgun sports.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...