CrashDodson Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 I will be hosting our first major match in August. A level 2 uspsa match. We will be using amazon fire tablets. How important is having paper backups? I have been to one match recently that used bluetooth receipt printers to give the competitors a copy and store a copy of the competitors score. This would add about 1k cost to my match as I dont currently own any of these printers. If I have full wifi coverage at the range and setup score logging should this be sufficient? I can add SD cards to each tablet though on android I cant find an option for automatic backups or scheduled backups, just the manual backup option. I've been to plenty of recent sanctioned that had no paper copies of any kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Nothing is sufficient except hard copy receipts for shooters. I went through all of this last year. Direct from USPSA President Mike Foley. We had two forms of redundancy but did not have printers And he said no go. It’s cheaper just to print a sheet that summarizes each stage so each shooter has one piece of paper for the whole match. When I talked to higher ups about an Area match that didn’t do it, I was told that they did not have permission to do it. It’s really not an issue unless something catastrophic happens and you lose data. But I use the one sheet option and call it good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 So you have an RO fill out this sheet for the shooter and then give it to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Just now, CrashDodson said: So you have an RO fill out this sheet for the shooter and then give it to them? Yes. Hand the stack back to the squad mom/dad. It lists all required info for each stage in a small area. I was worried it could be altered(cheating) but staff initials had to be on any changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 I’ll find a copy and try to post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 I would appreciate that, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 If we did have printers, would that be sufficient? Would save time from having the RO's write in scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Just now, CrashDodson said: If we did have printers, would that be sufficient? Would save time from having the RO's write in scores. Yes but like you said pretty pricey when you buy 10-15 plus some extras. You always need backups. I ALWAYS have three staff per stage. While the pad guy runs back and reads off scores the timer RO is loading up the next shooter. No extra time involved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 I wish I could get 3 staff per stage, but thats not looking likely right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 I use three so they can rotate in and out of positions, set in the shade, etc. the scoring ease is an added benefit. It was preached to me from the beginning to have 3 per plus 2-3 spares for MAJORS. Not to mention when shooting staff days I have paid competitors with 10-13 full squads. With only two staff per squad they get run ragged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 IMO Shooters can take photos of the screen with their phone or you can set up email receipts via practiscore for scores to be sent to shooters registered emails as soon as the stage score is approved. Paper is a waste IMO. Embrace technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 In match setup I dont see anywhere to set an option to email the scores to the shooter. Do you know where that option is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 I use three so they can rotate in and out of positions, set in the shade, etc. the scoring ease is an added benefit. It was preached to me from the beginning to have 3 per plus 2-3 spares for MAJORS. Not to mention when shooting staff days I have paid competitors with 10-13 full squads. With only two staff per squad they get run ragged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, CrashDodson said: In match setup I dont see anywhere to set an option to email the scores to the shooter. Do you know where that option is? We have wifi set up and most generally have the apps to keep track. I’ll ping my stats guy and get back to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perttime Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) How big are we talking when it is a USPSA Level 2? In my corner of the world, we are finding that cheap bluetooth printers are a pain. So we've given up on them at IPSC Level 2 matches (usually 70 to 100 paying shooters, and 30 to 50 crew shooting the previous day). Our printers kept losing connection if the guy with the pad wasn't carrying the printer too. And competitors didn't want the slips of paper. We have suggested that competitors can take photos of the screen but nobody seems to bother. Edited January 31, 2020 by perttime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, CrashDodson said: In match setup I dont see anywhere to set an option to email the scores to the shooter. Do you know where that option is? I havent set this up myself. I have been to a few majors out in MI where I got these myself as a shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 I will reach out to NROI and see what is required. We are expecting 200-300 shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, CrashDodson said: ..I have been to one match recently that used bluetooth receipt printers to give the competitors a copy and store a copy of the competitors score. This would add about 1k cost to my match as I dont currently own any of these printers. A 1k will let you to get 20..25 printers. https://blog.practiscore.com/printing-stage-receipts/ 26 minutes ago, perttime said: In my corner of the world, we are finding that cheap bluetooth printers are a pain. So we've given up on them at IPSC Level 2 matches (usually 70 to 100 paying shooters, and 30 to 50 crew shooting the previous day). Our printers kept losing connection if the guy with the pad wasn't carrying the printer too. And competitors didn't want the slips of paper. Out of curiosity, what corner of the world that is? And what printers and what tablets? Canada been using BT printers for most L3 IPSC matches for 3..5 years now. Several setups with different tablets and printer models. Some cheap ones has bad battery connection, but no major issues that can't be fixed with a little effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 41 minutes ago, Maximis228 said: I havent set this up myself. I have been to a few majors out in MI where I got these myself as a shooter. In review results there is an option to email results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 I think the feature that emails individual results may only be available on IOS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 And my stats guy just clarified what he said earlier is not what you were asking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perttime Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 16 minutes ago, euxx said: Out of curiosity, what corner of the world that is? And what printers and what tablets? Canada been using BT printers for most L3 IPSC matches for 3..5 years now. Several setups with different tablets and printer models. Some cheap ones has bad battery connection, but no major issues that can't be fixed with a little effort. Finland, northern Europe. I don't remember what pads or printers. Both were small and probably cheap. The pads, with temporarily installed range-wide wifi, have been highly reliable. Some powerbanks helped to make sure there was power to keep going all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 49 minutes ago, CrashDodson said: I think the feature that emails individual results may only be available on IOS It depend what you call "email individual results". You can email/sms/whatsup individual stage results from Android app. Share option is the same one that is used for printing them. It will use apps installed on device for that. The ios app does have option to push results to another practiscore server (that is if it is enabled and scoring tablet can connect to it from the stage). That server will then send emails, that is if competitor's email were present on the scoring tablet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 46 minutes ago, euxx said: It depend what you call "email individual results". You can email/sms/whatsup individual stage results from Android app. Share option is the same one that is used for printing them. It will use apps installed on device for that. The ios app does have option to push results to another practiscore server (that is if it is enabled and scoring tablet can connect to it from the stage). That server will then send emails, that is if competitor's email were present on the scoring tablet. Can you set it up to do this automatically from the android app? As soon as the competitor clicks approve? I also cant find a way to force sync from the scoring tablet to master without having to manually sync. From Mike Foley: Please tell me about the hardware, network, and posting strategy you intend to use, I base my approval on certain guarantees. The system has to have a five point redundancy standard or four backups including one to the competitor themselves. Here are the standards I usually request: First, the scores live on the device they are scored on at the stage. Second, a backup device at each stage will receive the scores, or they will push to a network device in the case of WiFi. Third, the master device will receive the scores, Fourth, the scores will be pushed to the web. (PS and USPSA daily) Fifth, the competitor will receive a text, or email, or PS competitor app push, with his stage score. It is the text or email that we believe will replace the paper backup, and reduce transcription errors. There are up to 7 ways to backup a score, and I want 5 in play including a receipt. I also like competitors only approving the score by button or signature on the pad. Signature takes a ton of memory, so it is usually not the best option. Having them press Approve each time requires the RO's knowing to force the competitor to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, CrashDodson said: Can you set it up to do this automatically from the android app? As soon as the competitor clicks approve? I also cant find a way to force sync from the scoring tablet to master without having to manually sync. Not currently. The push of scores to PractiScore for android is in the list There isn't automatic sync either. 1 hour ago, CrashDodson said: First, the scores live on the device they are scored on at the stage. Second, a backup device at each stage will receive the scores, or they will push to a network device in the case of WiFi. Third, the master device will receive the scores, Fourth, the scores will be pushed to the web. (PS and USPSA daily) Fifth, the competitor will receive a text, or email, or PS competitor app push, with his stage score. It is the text or email that we believe will replace the paper backup, and reduce transcription errors. There are up to 7 ways to backup a score, and I want 5 in play including a receipt. For the second point. Don't think I ever seen a second backup device on a stage... In addition to that PractiScore app for Android can also be configured to write a local score log to a removable (if device physically allows that) SD card. That store normally will survive even if tablet itself is damaged or broken. You can take card out and open it on another computer (it is in a text format). 1 hour ago, CrashDodson said: I also like competitors only approving the score by button or signature on the pad. Signature takes a ton of memory, so it is usually not the best option. Having them press Approve each time requires the RO's knowing to force the competitor to do it. Regarding "signature taking a ton of memory". What data this statement is based on? And what's the definition of a ton of memory? My anecdotal math gives me about 1.5Mb for the signatures (most tablets have 1Gb or more memory) for a match with 15 stages and 400 competitors. That's for 6000 signatures and also I'd recommend to use shooter's initials there. But this is not the only thing that "requires the RO's knowing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now