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SVI BROKEN BARREL


MIGUEL

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Just now, MIGUEL said:

estoy esperando esta respuesta que al dia de hoy aun no llega.

Dear SVI:

 

As we talk on mail before,

 

You have in your possession a barrel of  SVI CPOZOW 1 caliber .40 (attached photos). This broken Barrels has the same imperfection pattern as the broken barrel of the SVI gun would be MM 31683 cal .38 super.

The broken Barrel of the CPOZOW 1 pistol, YOU replaced it with cost to the customer. The answer from SVI is that cannon was “the best quality”, the same response I received when asking about the quality of the SVI gun barrel MM 31683. Which I have shown is not so.

As SVI insists in the quality of its guns. I ask you to send me the Fat (Factory acceptance test) which indicates working pressure, test pressure and rupture pressure, and also attach the certificate of quality of the material used by the construction of the barrels.

 

for the following guns:

-        SVI Serial Number, SAVANT 34, .40 caliber

-        SVI Serial Number, MM 31682, 9 mm caliber

-        SVI GM Series Number 610931, 9 mm caliber,

-        SVI GM serial number 610932, caliber .38 SUPERCOMP

-        SVI Serial number MM 31684 caliber .38 SUPERCOMP

-        SVI Serial number MM 31685 caliber .38 SUPERCOMP

 

As there is already a report that checks defects in their barrels, All the guns mentioned in the list have BEEN REMOVED and will not be “USED”, until I receive the test certificates issued by you. Once the certificates have been received, the test values will be verified and compare by national laboratories, we will make sure that nobody gets hurt with.

 

Best regards,

 

Miguel Mondaca.

 

De: strayer@sviguns.com [mailto:strayer@sviguns.com]
Enviado e
l: domingo, 26 de enero de 2020 10:44
Para: mmondaca.mv@do-sp.cl; Miguel__Mondaca@vtr.net; clementewagnerc@gmail.com; Casey Hamrick; Brandon Strayer
Asunto: Report

 

Miguel,

Thank you for the metallurgical report in English!

Sorry that it has taken a few weeks to respond to your email, but it is important to us that we take the time to thoroughly review the report and findings.

Communication is often difficult across great distances and between languages and we applaud your efforts to maintain open exchanges.

Truly appreciate your diligence in working with us to correctly ascertain the cause of the barrel failure.

There may have been a translation issue on the Sulphur content of the material.

416R is manufactured to include a maximum amount of Sulphur of 0.15% and is thus called a riffling (R) grade manufactured for the express use in pistol or rifle barrel manufacture.

The standard grade of 416 has a Sulphur minimum content of 0.15% and maximum content of 0.40% .

Please verify this information with the University staff.

We will be in contact with the steel mill and its metallurgical staff soon but suspect they will require the parts for evaluation.

Please send us the barrel and slide at your earliest convenience.

Thanks again for all your diligence and help in the evaluation of the barrel failure!

Please feel free to  contact us at any time!


Warmest Regards,

 

Sandy Strayer

 

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4 hours ago, bret said:

where is the picture of the ruptured case?

 

I cant understand how case help you? I have similar rupture on my tanfoglio 8-10 years ago 

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Considering this manufacturer has built thousands of guns with similar barrel material, and from those, experienced a very, very small number of failures (probably a fraction of one percent), the odds of one person experiencing two such failures is probably close to zero, absent something unique to that person.  I'm not saying it's impossible, but pretty darn close.

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On 3/29/2020 at 9:18 PM, 3GN said:

I cant understand how case help you? I have similar rupture on my tanfoglio 8-10 years ago 

 

8 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

Considering this manufacturer has built thousands of guns with similar barrel material, and from those, experienced a very, very small number of failures (probably a fraction of one percent), the odds of one person experiencing two such failures is probably close to zero, absent something unique to that person.  I'm not saying it's impossible, but pretty darn close.

I always talk about the real thing, not what I believe or think, here in Chile in the last 3 years 12 SVI pistols have entered, today there are 4 broken barrels, all people have been denied a guarantee, the percentage is 25 %, the reason they say is always the same, our pistols are made of the best materials. if you enter their website they say that their barrels are made of sae 4340, and my reality is that they added aisi 416. therefore to say that they always use the same material (defective aisi 416r), it would be to ensure that SVI deliberately misleads people offering one quality on their website and delivering another. on the other hand there is evidence that the aisi 416r does not work for barrels used in IPSC or USPSA.I hope I can have the peace of mind that SVI in my other 6 pistols that are not yet used put a good material, copy the emails above, but that still does not happen I have been waiting for technical certificates for several months to review and I still have no news

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I don't have a dog in this fight, however I will share that a shooting buddy of mine has broken 2 SVI barrels on two different pistols over the past 2-3 years.  He has since ordered a STI DVC open pistol and was shooting that rig the end of last season.  

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32 minutes ago, RangerTrace said:

That certainly appears to be a double charge of powder and most, if not all barrels, would do that.  

I would like to know why there are many people who say that it seems that it is a double burden, but none assures it, much less mentions that there is evidence that this was really happened, the university report clearly says that the breakup did not occur Once, physically, no double charge enters the brass.

 

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4 hours ago, MIGUEL said:

 

I always talk about the real thing, not what I believe or think, here in Chile in the last 3 years 12 SVI pistols have entered, today there are 4 broken barrels, all people have been denied a guarantee, the percentage is 25 %, the reason they say is always the same, our pistols are made of the best materials. if you enter their website they say that their barrels are made of sae 4340, and my reality is that they added aisi 416. therefore to say that they always use the same material (defective aisi 416r), it would be to ensure that SVI deliberately misleads people offering one quality on their website and delivering another. on the other hand there is evidence that the aisi 416r does not work for barrels used in IPSC or USPSA.I hope I can have the peace of mind that SVI in my other 6 pistols that are not yet used put a good material, copy the emails above, but that still does not happen I have been waiting for technical certificates for several months to review and I still have no news

 

I'm not here to defend the manufacturer, and I'm not a fan boy.  I'm just stating a fact that the odds (from a statistical point) are WAY low for one person to experience two such failures out of the universe of SV pistols built with 416R barrrels.  Again, not impossible, but darn close.  As for the barrel being defective, that's a possibility.  But the analysis you provided isn't definitive, and doesn't take into consideration the history of the barrel and how it was used, and various other factors.  It does indicate there were cracks early on that lead to the ultimate failure.  But again, that doesn't prove the material was defective vs. the being subjected to excessive pressure, perhaps on many occasions, or some other factor.  And you're statement that 416R stainless is inappropriate for the application is incorrect.  It's widely used in the industry, and failures across that spectrum are quite rare.  It may not be the best material to use, but it's an accepted industry standard.  I'm not saying either party is at fault, only that we can't know for sure from the information that's been provided so far.

Edited by ltdmstr
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^^^^^What he said.  I'm purely going by the appearance.  I've heard of plenty of barrel lug failures on lots of brands.  But I've only seen barrel ruptures like this from overcharged brass.   

I have exactly same rupture on my gun .... bullet stay stack in barrel and next one do same rupture like Miguel pictured


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As for the odds... The conclusion assumes uniform distribution.

 

Yet, if the barrels are made in sequence - and serial numbers suggests that's the case - they could be made from same barstock piece. People make errors, SVI is not spotless. The piece could be defective - beyond SVI control, until they test in-house. That's very unfortunate as some other people might be affected too. Even if the probability of that is like 1%, that's in my opinion, is totally reckless to ignore and deny (on manufacturer side). One high-profile case of missing fingers and the brand is gone?

 

Somehow a lot of drama here is around blown-up barrel.

Totally ignoring a separate occurrence with broken lower lug for which the photo is posted here.

 

Happy IMM owner otherwise.

Edited by arkadi
typo
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1 hour ago, ltdmstr said:

 

I'm not here to defend the manufacturer, and I'm not a fan boy.  I'm just stating a fact that the odds (from a statistical point) are WAY low for one person to experience two such failures out of the universe of SV pistols built with 416R barrrels.  Again, not impossible, but darn close.  As for the barrel being defective, that's a possibility.  But the analysis you provided isn't definitive, and doesn't take into consideration the history of the barrel and how it was used, and various other factors.  It does indicate there were cracks early on that lead to the ultimate failure.  But again, that doesn't prove the material was defective vs. the being subjected to excessive pressure, perhaps on many occasions, or some other factor.  And you're statement that 416R stainless is inappropriate for the application is incorrect.  It's widely used in the industry, and failures across that spectrum are quite rare.  It may not be the best material to use, but it's an accepted industry standard.  I'm not saying either party is at fault, only that we can't know for sure from the information that's been provided so far.

You read this pliss

Schuemann_Barrel_Steel.pdf

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45 minutes ago, 3GN said:


I have exactly same rupture on my gun .... bullet stay stack in barrel and next one do same rupture like Miguel pictured


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When that happens that you mention in the grooves of the barrels, there is a clogging mark. in this case he was practicing sesenfunde to a plate at 25 meters. all the shots went well even the one that explored the barrel the lead also hit the metal blaco

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30 minutes ago, arkadi said:

As for the odds... The conclusion assumes uniform distribution.

 

Yet, if the barrels are made in sequence - and serial numbers suggests that's the case - they could be made from same barstock piece. People make errors, SVI is not spotless. The piece could be defective - beyond SVI control, until they test in-house. That's very unfortunate as some other people might be affected too. Even if the probability of that is like 1%, that's in my opinion, is totally reckless to ignore and deny (on manufacturer side). One high-profile case of missing fingers and the brand is gone?

 

Somehow a lot of drama here is around blown-up barrel.

Totally ignoring a separate occurrence with broken lower lug for which the photo is posted here.

 

Happy IMM owner otherwise.

My main concern is with my remaining pistols, my fingers and my face, there is no quality certificate and no pressure test, SVI does not show what pressure their barrels work, nor what pressure the barrels test since pressure breaks, It is very comfortable for them to say it is only a double burden and it is the responsibility of the athlete, but they do not display anything that certifies that it is a good product. I had to send them to examine the material to demonstrate that their barrels are not of good quality.

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52 minutes ago, MIGUEL said:

 

I did.  And I agree there are plenty of people who feel 416 stainless isn't a good choice for rifle/pistol barrels.  But that doesn't change the fact that it's widely used in the industry for that exact purpose.  Please go back and reread my prior post, then tell my what part is incorrect.

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Just now, ltdmstr said:

 

I did.  And I agree there are plenty of people who feel 416 stainless isn't a good choice for rifle/pistol barrels.  But that doesn't change the fact that it's widely used in the industry for that exact purpose.  Please go back and reread my prior post, then tell my what part is incorrect.

I cannot deny or assure if it is used a lot or a little, the calculation memory of the 416r for production pistols, the lowest factor the utilization factor is .29 resists three times the pressure, but for pistols the highest value factor is 1.02 factor of service, the material does not structurally resist open pistol pressure. I think SVI knows this perfectly because on its website it offers barrels of sae 4340 material, several times superior in quality compared to the aisi 416R,

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Well, less than five minutes of searching on the Internet revealed that all the 1911/2011 barrel manufacturers listed below use 416R stainless for their barrels.  That covers most of the big names.  I'm sure if I searched a bit more, the list would probably include just about every aftermarket manufacturer.

  • Bar-Sto
  • Briley
  • Ed Brown
  • KKM
  • Nighthawk
  • Nowlin
  • Storm Lake
  • Wilson
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