ysrracer Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Hi Guys, I'm chasing my tail trying to get a .38 special load with Berry's 158 plated bullet to make minor. I tried using a book load of 4.4gr of 231, and I'm not even close. The book says, 820fps, my chrono (and my buddy's) say 680. Does anybody have a 231 or Titegroup, or Clays load with a Barry's 158gr bullet that makes minor? I'm not looking for what the books say, I'm looking for something that somebody actually loaded and chrono'd. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted January 25, 2020 Author Share Posted January 25, 2020 Oh, I'm shooting it in an S&W 627 with a five inch barrel, performance center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajblack Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Are you making sure the powder is back in the case when you Chrono? I load 38 special with 231 (HP 38) and make minor with 4 grains out of a 4 inch gun and 160 grain RN. However, my velocity goes way down if the powder is positioned in the front of the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted January 25, 2020 Author Share Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) No, how would I do that? Point the gun straight up, then slowly lower it to level? Never thought of that. Will they do that when I chrono my loads at Mesquite Mayhem? Edited January 25, 2020 by ysrracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted January 25, 2020 Author Share Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) My AOL is 1.43. No, I keep the gun pointed down, then raise it to level, and pull the trigger. I'd guess the powder is all up front with the bullet. Edited January 25, 2020 by ysrracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Phil Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Yes from what I remember (4 or so yrs ago) Win 231 (HP-38) is very position sensitive. I tended to get partially burned powder when I tried to go to a lower charge. If you raise the barrel and slowly lower it it may chrono a bit better.. FWIW Hogdon's site lists a max load for the 38 Spec @ 4.3 gr for 779 fps out of a 7.7" bbl. (Cast bullet data for plated bullet) Your 680 fps sounds pretty close. That problem is why I cut my 38 Spec brass down to .900 (38 Super). I don't do it for the (assumed) quicker loading, but for the efficient powder burn, etc. I use 3.8 gr Win 231 with a 147 gr Blue bullet and am around 128 PF or slightly above. Hogdon's site also lists 38 Spec +P at 4.6 gr Hp-38 (same powder) for 807 fps. (7.7" bbl) Good luck with your search... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajblack Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 39 minutes ago, ysrracer said: No, how would I do that? Point the gun straight up, then slowly lower it to level? Yes. Also, I usually see the Chrono guys tap the cylinder to make sure the powder is seated back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 3.8 of clays behind a 160 grain makes 130+ PF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Are you looking at loads in the 38 +P section of the loading manual? You're going to want to load above the power factor floor to ensure steel goes down, I aim for 132-135.No help, but I shoot 4.6 of Unique behind a 158 grain coated lead round nose. I believe that's into the +P loads in the manual. A plated bullet needs more powder than lead.Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted January 25, 2020 Author Share Posted January 25, 2020 Thanks for the info guys, I'll give it a try on Monday. Yes, I have noticed my first shot is slower than the rest. Now it makes sense. 30 years ago when I was loading Win 452AA in my .45 I don't remember having these problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Thanks for the info guys, I'll give it a try on Monday. Yes, I have noticed my first shot is slower than the rest. Now it makes sense. 30 years ago when I was loading Win 452AA in my .45 I don't remember having these problems. Was your 45 a wheel gun? The bottom feeders spread the powder out inside the case better cause of the way they chamber. Revos have the slow first round issue because we drop the gun down to load them. A powder that fills the case better can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWP Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 I’m fairly certain they won’t tip the gun up at Chrono. I’ve seen people do it before, but that’s not the proper technique. You want the gun well above the PF if steel is to fall consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrrhic3gun Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 All this discussion is why I suggested you use a different powder. Also, I'm wondering if your technique for chrono set-up is up to par. When you're here in the "land of the free", we'll discuss how it should be done. And you can ignore that advice too. :^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted January 26, 2020 Author Share Posted January 26, 2020 (edited) How about some advice on pizza or bbq? See you in a few weeks. Edited January 26, 2020 by ysrracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 tight group, doesnt care about position,, should easy make pf with 158 swc's. I run 3,1 under a 148 wc, at 710 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted January 26, 2020 Author Share Posted January 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Joe4d said: tight group, doesnt care about position,, should easy make pf with 158 swc's. I run 3,1 under a 148 wc, at 710 148 x 710 = 105,080. I thought ICORE power factor was 120, USPSA is 125. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted January 26, 2020 Author Share Posted January 26, 2020 37 minutes ago, pyrrhic3gun said: All this discussion is why I suggested you use a different powder. Also, I'm wondering if your technique for chrono set-up is up to par. When you're here in the "land of the free", we'll discuss how it should be done. And you can ignore that advice too. :^) Somebody once told me, powder is powder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 tight group, doesnt care about position,, should easy make pf with 158 swc's. I run 3,1 under a 148 wc, at 710I've been told tightgroup makes the forcing cone a little warmer than other powders. Burns suck if you reload strong hand, I usually forget to tape my middle finger until stage 2. :/Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 148 x 710 = 105,080. I thought ICORE power factor was 120, USPSA is 125.Isn't 105 power factor for speedloader fed revos in IDPA?Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 (edited) 3.1 tight group is a mininimum load under a 148,, making 710 fps looking at Hodgdon manual,, should be easy peasy to do a 158 SWC and make 125pf Edited January 26, 2020 by Joe4d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted January 26, 2020 Author Share Posted January 26, 2020 14 hours ago, PatJones said: Isn't 105 power factor for speedloader fed revos in IDPA? Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk I was having lunch at Minder Binders a few weeks ago with my friend, and we were just discussing this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted January 26, 2020 Author Share Posted January 26, 2020 16 hours ago, ysrracer said: 148 x 710 = 105,080. I thought ICORE power factor was 120, USPSA is 125. I remember when major was 175, but I guess the muzzle blast was blowing up their skirts, so they lowered it to 165 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I doubt very much if the Chrono Officer will try to position the powder in the case. If you ask them nicely I'm sure they will find it amusing though. If it's for USPSA load PF for 132+, ICORE 125+. Different procedures for each, USPSA is avg of 3 then 6 if not made, ICORE is single best of 6. Use Clays/ClayDot as Titegroup tends to heat up the gun. I've not used 158 plated in 38 specials though, just in short colts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 That's what I love about getting reloading data on the web. Ask ten people, get fourteen different suggestions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 8 hours ago, ysrracer said: That's what I love about getting reloading data on the web. Ask ten people, get fourteen different suggestions I like to see what loads people are using but then I cross check the data I find on the web with a reliable source like Hodgdon's reloading data online or a good, current, reloading manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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