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cm 13-05 reload issue


Diver123

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You can't penalize someone for taking to few shots on a target.

Sure you can. The shooter was required to fire eight shots before the reload and only fired seven. 

 

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Can you re engage a target after you have engaged it?

Certainly, but doing so could cause someone to fire more shots than allowed (doesn't look like that's what happened here).

 

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If he engaged t1 through t4 with only 7 shots, reloaded and then engaged t1 through t4 with 8 shots, how would you score it?

If that were all the shots fired, I'm pretty sure there would be a Mike on the scoresheet.

 

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Did he still reload early?

Reload after seven? Yeah, that's early.

 

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Before you whip up any more hypotheticals, would you like to answer my question above (how would have scored it?)?

 

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Just now, ima45dv8 said:

Sure you can. The shooter was required to fire eight shots before the reload and only fired seven. 

 

Certainly, but doing so could cause someone to fire more shots than allowed (doesn't look like that's what happened here).

 

If that were all the shots fired, I'm pretty sure there would be a Mike on the scoresheet.

 

Reload after seven? Yeah, that's early.

 

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Before you whip up any more hypotheticals, would you like to answer my question above (how would have scored it?)?

 

fire 7, reload, fire 8, then 1 make up, no procedural penalty IMO.

How would the R.O. know which targets the shooter was engaging?, how would they know the 9th shot wasn't a make up shot?

fire 7, reload, fire 8, no penalty, but will have at least 1 mike. IMO.

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4 hours ago, bret said:

what rule says you can't reload "early" and take a mike?

You don't "take a Mike," you have to reload after you have engaged each target with exactly two rounds. You can reload to your heart's content before the mandatory reload, those don't count for anything. Once you have to make the mandatory reload, i.e., after you have engaged each target with two shots (not after you fired 8), then every shot will incur a procedural if you fail to reload. Similarly, until you have engaged each target with two rounds, you don't have to reload, but anything in excess of two on each target is a procedural. Then, you can get extra procedurals for extra hits, if any. 

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2 hours ago, IVC said:

You don't "take a Mike," you have to reload after you have engaged each target with exactly two rounds. You can reload to your heart's content before the mandatory reload, those don't count for anything. Once you have to make the mandatory reload, i.e., after you have engaged each target with two shots (not after you fired 8), then every shot will incur a procedural if you fail to reload. Similarly, until you have engaged each target with two rounds, you don't have to reload, but anything in excess of two on each target is a procedural. Then, you can get extra procedurals for extra hits, if any. 

quote the rule.

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1 hour ago, bret said:

quote the rule.

 

10.2.4:  "A competitor who fails to comply with a mandatory reload will incur one procedural penalty for each shot fired after the point where the reload was required until a reload is performed"  (emphasis added)

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6 minutes ago, Southpaw said:

 

10.2.4:  "A competitor who fails to comply with a mandatory reload will incur one procedural penalty for each shot fired after the point where the reload was required until a reload is performed"  (emphasis added)

he engaged all 4 targets, just didn't fire 2 shots at the last target.

 

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1 hour ago, GrumpyOne said:

Look at it this way. 

Instead of T1-T4 twice, think of it as T1-T4, mandatory reload, T5-T8. He did not reload after T4. 8 procedurals.

yet he did reload after T1 -T4

 

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54 minutes ago, bret said:

yet he did reload after T1 -T4

 

Did not.

 

He must reload after engaging each with two rounds. He engaged T4 with one, so any reload at that time is like a Revo reloading after 6 - you're free to do it, but it's NOT "the" mandatory reload per WSB. Read the WSB as a story. It's not "anchored" around the reload, it specifies the order and number of shots. You cannot claim that "the mandatory reload" is the one reload you do after 7 rounds because that's not how the story goes. There is no "taking a Mike" to advance the story. You have to FIRST shoot each target with two rounds. Until that is satisfied, any extra shots/hits are just that - extra shots/hits with procedurals. THEN you have to reload. The condition for the mandatory reload is that you "fire two shots on each target." Once you get to that point, the story tells you that you HAVE TO RELOAD. If you don't, you incur procedurals per 10.2.4. 

 

Notice that you don't get to decide where the mandatory reload happens by shooting more/less rounds and "taking a Mike" or so. It's spelled out for you in the WSB - count the shots at each target and when you get to "two on each" you now have to reload. If you added some shots, well, that's the procedurals because the story says you must shoot two and only two. However, the mandatory reload is not connected at all to the number of shots or anything other than "two rounds on each target." It's the trigger for the reload. 

 

So, you fire seven shots and reload, you haven't arrived at the point of mandatory reload. You are still in the part of the story that says "engage each target with two rounds each." Until you put the second round on T4, you're just violating the first chapter of the story. As soon as you do shoot the second round on T4, now you move to the middle chapter of the story - the mandatory reload. Don't do it, and you'll be hit with 10.2.4 at that time. Again, the mandatory reload is NOT after 7/9/any number of shots, but after "engaging each target with two rounds." 

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I've intentionally made up misses on a Virginia count stage. I've had to explain how to apply the penalties nearly every time.

We only keep it around for classifiers. Do you really think the high hit factors would change if El Presidente was scored Comstock?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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3 hours ago, PatJones said:

We only keep it around for classifiers. Do you really think the high hit factors would change if El Presidente was scored Comstock?

The question of "when is a reload the mandatory reload per WSB" would remain even with Comstock... 

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