Alien Pistol by Laugo SHOT SHOW 2020

[Jcgatus]

 

[Salsantini]

Really would like to handle one of these.  I contacted Lancer and asked if they would have a less expensive model.  They replied they are looking at different models with just the base pistol.  

[shred]

Note that its not approved for Production Optics in IPSC in that configuration because the dot is not mounted to the slide.

 

USPSA hasn't weighed in yet to my knowledge, but the letter of the CO rules says the dot has to be mounted directly to the slide too.

 

 

 

 

 

[perttime]

There's a version where you can mount a dot on the moving parts of the slide.

 

I just wish they made it in something that works for IPSC Standard / USPSA Limited.

Limited Minor?

[Southpaw]

1 hour ago, shred said:

USPSA hasn't weighed in yet to my knowledge, but the letter of the CO rules says the dot has to be mounted directly to the slide too.

 

Also single action hammer fired guns aren't allowed in Production and CO.

[perttime]

22 minutes ago, Southpaw said:

 

Also single action hammer fired guns aren't allowed in Production and CO.

 

IPSC only says:

14. Only handguns listed as approved in the Production Division List on the IPSC website may be used in Production Division. Note that handguns deemed by IPSC to be single-action-only are expressly prohibited. (...)

15. The minimum trigger pull must either be 2.27kg (5lbs.) for the first shot fired and no restriction for subsequent shots fired, or 1.36kg (3lbs.) for every shot fired.

16. Handguns with external hammers must be fully decocked (see Rule 8.1.2.5), at the Start Signal.

 

The Alien is on IPSC Production list, so clearly it is not considered single-action-only, there.

[Southpaw]

13 minutes ago, perttime said:

 

IPSC only says:

14. Only handguns listed as approved in the Production Division List on the IPSC website may be used in Production Division. Note that handguns deemed by IPSC to be single-action-only are expressly prohibited. (...)

15. The minimum trigger pull must either be 2.27kg (5lbs.) for the first shot fired and no restriction for subsequent shots fired, or 1.36kg (3lbs.) for every shot fired.

16. Handguns with external hammers must be fully decocked (see Rule 8.1.2.5), at the Start Signal.

 

The Alien is on IPSC Production list, so clearly it is not considered single-action-only, there.

 

I quoted a comment about USPSA so was only referring to that, but maybe I should've made that more clear. I don't shoot IPSC so don't care much what they do

 

That is interesting how IPSC put in their rules that they have ability to deem whether a gun is single action only or not. So they gave themselves the option to arbitrarily redefine the trigger system of a gun if they want it on the Production gun list

[Jim Watson]

Kind of like a Smith Plastic M&P?

I think a stock CZ cams the hammer back farther than a M&P moves the striker with the trigger.

But IPSC, USPSA and many PDs consider the M&P the equivalent of a double action... or a Glock.

[shred]

1 hour ago, perttime said:

 

IPSC only says:

14. Only handguns listed as approved in the Production Division List on the IPSC website may be used in Production Division. Note that handguns deemed by IPSC to be single-action-only are expressly prohibited. (...)

 

The Alien is on IPSC Production list, so clearly it is not considered single-action-only, there.

Yeah, the IPSC objection for Production Optics is that the dot isn't on the reciprocating parts.  The USPSA language is similar in that the dot must be mounted directly to the slide.

 

The single-action-only horse is well out of the barn--  XD, Walther, SIG, etc.  The Alien happens to be a hammer-fired single-action, rather than a striker-fired single-action but because the hammer can't be seen, I guess IPSC powers-that-be decided it was OK.

 

 

[perttime]

I don't remember seeing how that Alien trigger/hammer mechanism works exactly. Any help with that?

 

edit: more specifically: Is the hammer "fully cocked" before you pull the trigger?

 

USPSA:

8.1.5.2 “Double Action” means activation of the trigger causes more than a single action to occur (i.e. the hammer or striker rises or retracts, then falls).

8.1.5.3 “Striker Fired” means activation of the trigger, once the chamber of the firearm is loaded, finishes cocking the striker spring and then causes the striker to fall.

 

Even USPSA has a "list", and somebody must determine whether a gun meets the criteria or not.

Edited January 24, 2020 by perttime

[Southpaw]

For USPSA the rules for Production and CO state "Only Double Action, Double Action/Single Action, and Safe Action/Striker Fired handguns are allowed, and must be on the approved list." That's first part of special conditions section of appendices.

 

That's how USPSA gets around the fact that most striker fired guns are actually SAO. In USPSA striker fired guns, whether DA or SA have always been allowed, but SAO hammer fired guns have not been allowed. Now whether you think that makes sense or not is another thing entirely, but that's always been how it is in USPSA and with the way rules are currently worded I don't see how you can approve the Alien for Production and CO...although I'd be shocked if it doesn't get approved...

 

Again this is all just for USPSA. As stated above, it seems IPSC rules give themselves the authority to redefine trigger systems at will

 

25 minutes ago, perttime said:

I don't remember seeing how that Alien trigger/hammer mechanism works exactly. Any help with that?

 

 

It has an internal hammer similar to many .22 pistols. There are a few other centerfire pistols with internal hammers, but not many I can think of. Remington R51 and S&W Shield EZ I believe have internal hammers.

[perttime]

2 minutes ago, Southpaw said:

...

It has an internal hammer similar to many .22 pistols. There are a few other centerfire pistols with internal hammers, but not many I can think of. Remington R51 and S&W Shield EZ I believe have internal hammers.

 

Whether the hammer is internal or external is irrelevant.

Does the Alien trigger just release the hammer, or does it move it back before releasing it?

[Southpaw]

7 minutes ago, perttime said:

 

Whether the hammer is internal or external is irrelevant.

Does the Alien trigger just release the hammer, or does it move it back before releasing it?

 

Agreed internal vs. external hammer shouldn't matter. I thought it was SAO with hammer fully cocked from cycling the slide, but I'm not sure. If it's actually DA then you can ignore all my posts in this thread

[jrbet83]

On 1/24/2020 at 10:14 AM, perttime said:

USPSA:

8.1.5.2 “Double Action” means activation of the trigger causes more than a single action to occur (i.e. the hammer or striker rises or retracts, then falls).

 

Here’s going to be the arbitrary question....how much “rise or retracts” is enough? Depending on the sear nose angle and hammer hooks, a 1911 trigger pull can “technically” move the hammer alittle before falling. Same goes for an AR trigger. Looking at the design of the Alien trigger, the way the sear moves, I’d bet the hammer moves back ever so slightly . I doubt this type of trigger is what USPSA originally intended in Production....but just saying. Now USPSA could go the route of the Production rifle rules in PRS and put a MSRP price limit. 

[yigal]

A very impressive gun. As was the hk p7m8 at the time.
SA mechanism like 75 cz but sitting upside down. In my opinion, an external  safety is missing for safe  operation.

don't know how SA gun like 1911 was  approved for production and CO by IPSC.

maybe the high price of this gun will compensate the IPSC  legalization for P.and CO div.

 

[zhunter]

I see they have a slide ride adapter for the dot, will this be legal in USPSA CO?  

 

As for Production, seems like it could be a game changer with the low bore and stationary sights

[shred]

Assuming NROI decides a single-action-hammer gun is G2G in Production, then the reciprocating mount that mounts the dot directly to the slide between the rear and ejection port would seem to be ok for CO.

 

I don't think it's going to make everything else obsolete overnight.  There were several at the European Championships and I don't think any landed in the top 5 of Production.

 

 

[Southpaw]

2 hours ago, shred said:

Assuming NROI decides a single-action-hammer gun is G2G in Production, then the reciprocating mount that mounts the dot directly to the slide between the rear and ejection port would seem to be ok for CO.

 

I was curious so I asked him.  He said he hasn't seen one in person, but if it's SA hammer fired then it wouldn't qualify for Production.

 

19 hours ago, jrbet83 said:

Here’s going to be the arbitrary question....how much “rise or retracts” is enough? Depending on the sear nose angle and hammer hooks, a 1911 trigger pull can “technically” move the hammer alittle before falling. Same goes for an AR trigger. Looking at the design of the Alien trigger, the way the sear moves, I’d bet the hammer moves back ever so slightly . I doubt this type of trigger is what USPSA originally intended in Production....but just saying. Now USPSA could go the route of the Production rifle rules in PRS and put a MSRP price limit. 

 

Well if we want to play the game of pretending it's a DA hammer fired gun then that means the gun must start "chamber loaded, hammer fully down or de-cocked" (8.1.2.2).  How do you plan to fully lower the hammer on the Alien with a round in the chamber? 

[perttime]

Should be great for Limited Minor.

[yigal]

14 hours ago, Southpaw said:

 

I was curious so I asked him.  He said he hasn't seen one in person, but if it's SA hammer fired then it wouldn't qualify for Production.

 

 

Well if we want to play the game of pretending it's a DA hammer fired gun then that means the gun must start "chamber loaded, hammer fully down or de-cocked" (8.1.2.2).  How do you plan to fully lower the hammer on the Alien with a round in the chamber? 

with fishing line tied to hammer.

[Lior]

If somebody made a 2011 with a 3 lb trigger and a trigger safety and without a magwell the IPSC guys would probably deem it Production Division legal after the Laugo Alien precedent!

[valerko]

one of the main reasons I went to ShotShow2020 was this gun. I was little skeptical . Didn't get a chance to shoot it . But it does feel amazing in hands and has excellent trigger .

here you go :

 

 

[valerko]

still not sold on price tag and not sure if it'll end up on production list , otherwise it is not worth it . Those guys are small company and have all kinds of problrms raising capital , getting right emplyees..... , so this could end up being another Hudson .

That beeing said , I still wont one

 

[valerko]

still not sold on price tag and not sure if it'll end up on production list , otherwise it is not worth it . Those guys are small company and have all kinds of problrms raising capital , getting right emplyees..... , so this could end up being another Hudson .

That beeing said , I still wont one

 

[valerko]

then there's also aftermarket support , which I imagine is gonna be none in US , with only 500 models coming in and doubt there's gonna be significantly cheaper version anytime soon . Getting accessories from Europe will be PITA