how hard a grip

[Lastcat]

Yep, agree with everything said. Strong grip, front to back, side to side. Here's one that baffled me. I know a GM Open Shooter that is really good and squaded with him one day. I asked him about grip, he said he uses a "Soft Grip". What? 

 

Took my video of him and slowed it down. Watching his gun from the side, on the first shot the comp goes up and just as it came back down, you could see it settle just ever so slightly and pause back to where it started. He then fired his second shot. His splits are in the teens too (.17, .18, etc...) Yep I know, it's mechanics and science 

 

He shoots 124gr with Silhouette. I really think part of this control is part mechanics and knowing your gun. I don't know what kind of grip that is, but it sure has worked for him. He was truly one with his gear, no doubt.

[SGT_Schultz]

On 2/15/2020 at 3:09 PM, Dranoel said:

 

Don't "try it".  UNDERSTAND it. 

I have friends that I shoot with that ask me, "How do you do that?" I answer them with a movie quote from Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man:  "I read a book.  Came with the gun."

 

For me, it was true. the day I bought my first 1911 was the day I received in the mail a book I had ordered a couple weeks before. ( this was before the innerwebs and online bookstores)"Practical Shooting: Beyond Fundamentals" by Brian Enos. 

I read it. Then read it again. Then read it trying to "picture" what he was saying. Then I went to the range and actually PRACTICED what he said.

 

HOLY MOTHER OF JESUS!!!!    You cannot BELIEVE how much it changed my shooting and how much it changed the way I LOOKED and SAW my shooting. From there it changed the way I looked at and saw EVERYTHING. 

 

To simplify his book I would say, " Stop complicating things and SEE what you are doing. Keep your grip simple and neutral. I have teached and preached this for more than 20 yrs. But just as important, OBSERVE what happens when you fire, move, etc and UNDERSTAND what is happening so that later you can examine it and improve.

 

 

There is SO much truth here

 

But if most shooters did what you did, the tacticool trainer world would be very sad.......

[safarihunter]

Thanks for the Brian Enos article https://brianenos.com/the-neutral-grip/.  It has helped 

[Posvar]

I took a class with Chris Tilley a couple weeks ago and the very first thing he noticed was that my grip strength was inadequate. He uses the push/pull method but a strong grip is essential. After a few drills and some practice I could see the results with fine group shooting and fast follow ups etc. It works. It is also fatiguing for me and will require work and dry fire.

[JohnS23]

7 hours ago, Posvar said:

I took a class with Chris Tilley a couple weeks ago and the very first thing he noticed was that my grip strength was inadequate. He uses the push/pull method but a strong grip is essential. After a few drills and some practice I could see the results with fine group shooting and fast follow ups etc. It works. It is also fatiguing for me and will require work and dry fire.

 
Does he recommend gripping hard with both hands while push/pulling? He seems to shoot really flat with his recoil.

[Soderquist]

On 3/9/2020 at 6:15 PM, Lastcat said:

 Here's one that baffled me. I know a GM Open Shooter that is really good and squaded with him one day. I asked him about grip, he said he uses a "Soft Grip". What? 

 

Took my video of him and slowed it down. Watching his gun from the side, on the first shot the comp goes up and just as it came back down, you could see it settle just ever so slightly and pause back to where it started. He then fired his second shot. His splits are in the teens too (.17, .18, etc...) Yep I know, it's mechanics and science 

 

He shoots 124gr with Silhouette. I really think part of this control is part mechanics and knowing your gun. I don't know what kind of grip that is, but it sure has worked for him. He was truly one with his gear, no doubt.

Open guns manage recoil mechanically, much less for the shooter to do. 

[MemphisMechanic]

8 hours ago, Posvar said:

... I could see the results with fine group shooting and fast follow ups etc. It works. It is also fatiguing for me and will require work and dry fire.

The thing about gripping hard during a match is that it doesn’t require THAT much endurance: Even a long field course is perhaps 20-30 seconds total, half of which is “relax the grip while moving, loading, etc.” So you squeeze for five seconds here, run over there, and repeat.

 

The trick to gripping hard is... that you have learn do it via dryfire. It has to be instinctive to crush down on the gun as the slide comes up into your vision and you prep for the first shot, and stay forearm-burningly tight until you break the gun down and move to the next positions.

Which means when you’re dryfiring... it will wear you out heavily at first. Which is a good thing: it’s uncomfortable, but all exercises which build strength are. Before long you’ll find it completely sustainable.

 

Always make sure to grip the gun as hard as you should when dryfiring: I am the poster child for building bad habits with dryfire back in the B-class days. Chief among them were a relaxed grip since I knew the gun wasn’t going to go off, and transitioning the gun to an imprecise spot on the targets just to stay ahead of the par time.

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by MemphisMechanic

[Posvar]

On 3/24/2020 at 3:37 PM, JohnS23 said:

 
Does he recommend gripping hard with both hands while push/pulling? He seems to shoot really flat with his recoil.

Yes 

[Posvar]

On 3/24/2020 at 5:10 PM, MemphisMechanic said:

The thing about gripping hard during a match is that it doesn’t require THAT much endurance: Even a long field course is perhaps 20-30 seconds total, half of which is “relax the grip while moving, loading, etc.” So you squeeze for five seconds here, run over there, and repeat.

 

The trick to gripping hard is... that you have learn do it via dryfire. It has to be instinctive to crush down on the gun as the slide comes up into your vision and you prep for the first shot, and stay forearm-burningly tight until you break the gun down and move to the next positions.

Which means when you’re dryfiring... it will wear you out heavily at first. Which is a good thing: it’s uncomfortable, but all exercises which build strength are. Before long you’ll find it completely sustainable.

 

Always make sure to grip the gun as hard as you should when dryfiring: I am the poster child for building bad habits with dryfire back in the B-class days. Chief among them were a relaxed grip since I knew the gun wasn’t going to go off, and transitioning the gun to an imprecise spot on the targets just to stay ahead of the par time.

 

Excellent advice. Thanks 

[Desk-Jockey]

Far from the most xperienced shooter here but a consistent left miss, especially low left is usually a trigger issues IMO.  Hooking or jerking.  
 

for grips, I don’t find choking the gun to be helpful.   Years ago I took a course and the instructor demonstrated what he called a vice grip.   Basically focus on pushing through the upper part of back strap / beaver tail with the gun hand and pulling on the front strap with the, lower 2-3 fingers of the support hand to control recoil.   Best way to achieve that is to focus on pointing the thumbs of both hands at the target.    That gets the torque in the grip oriented right.  Yaw, etc. were less of an issue at pistol distances.  

[Flexmoney]

 

 

[choy]

I have heard all kinds of ways to grip the gun, some say like you are griping a hammer, some grip the ***** out of it.  I have tried them all, and found the recoil control for me is much better when I grip the **** out of it, but then I find my self pushing the red dot off target by tension, I would try it many different ways and see what works best for you.  As you shoot over time you may find that you need to adjust the grip also.  Good Luck

[NOSHMJ]

I choke the life out of the grip, to where I will have the texture imprinted on my hands after a stage.  

[SGT_Schultz]

Not only do you need to grip the crap out of the gun, you need to grip harder with your weak hand than with your strong hand and you need to find a way to lock both wrists.

 

Once the gun is secure in your hands, the next pivot is the wrist.  If they aren't locked the pistol will flip and take your hands for a ride.

[smfort]

I agree with CJW3 grip, grip, grip and then grip some more.  

[ShredderTactical]

It's more about good wrist lock versus grip strength.  Trying to choke the life out of the gun is old school thinking if you listen to the current generation of top ranked action pistol shooters.

[Scotty_JR]

On 5/17/2022 at 1:55 PM, ShredderTactical said:

It's more about good wrist lock versus grip strength.  Trying to choke the life out of the gun is old school thinking if you listen to the current generation of top ranked action pistol shooters.

 

I've moved to this application of grip. Focus on wrist lock, grip the strong hand enough to not have the pistol move in your hand(less than I thought) and as much as you can with the support hand. 

[fraizer15]

I tend to agree with ssanders224, "This. Use your eyes. Your hands will learn how to produce the results you want".  To paraphrase, calling your shots and tracking the sights in recoil.  Seeing what is happening in real time.

[Scrounger]

I also agree 

On 8/26/2022 at 7:19 PM, fraizer15 said:

 

I tend to agree with ssanders224, "This. Use your eyes. Your hands will learn how to produce the results you want".  To paraphrase, calling your shots and tracking the sights in recoil.  Seeing what is happening in real time.

 

100% agree, but I mostly shoot PCC now

where this absolutely applies. Shot GSSF last week and realize I have some work to do on my grip. 

[jhowert33]

Great info on here

[GunBugBit]

Combo of watching the sights/slide and feeling what the gun does while you shoot as fast as you can, first with no target, then at a target 7 to 10 yards, and letting your brain soak in that visual and tactile input and figure out what that neutral grip is for YOU with THAT GUN - is what makes sense to me.

[boatdoc173]

On 1/20/2020 at 10:38 AM, Ssanders224 said:

 

This. Use your eyes. Your hands will learn how to produce the results you want. 

 

I use this example sometimes:

Imagine walking up a flight of stairs while holding a cup of coffee filled to the rim. If you don't watch the coffee, it is certain to spill. Now imagine opening a heavy door with one hand while holding the coffee in the other. You don't THINK about how to move your body, or how to hold your arm... You just watch the coffee and your body automatically responds and anticipates in whatever way necessary to prevent the coffee from spilling. 

 

Shooting a pistol isn't dissimilar. Watch your sights (or dot) and let your vision keep them where they need to be. Your body will respond accordingly, just like it does with the coffee. With practice, it will become second nature, and your body will do an increasingly better job of responding to the input from your eyes, and anticipating movements. 

 

All that being said, grip the gun hard. 

Then work on your grip strength and grip the gun harder.  

great perspective.  really highlights what is important.

 

Brian s grip technique(  see  above post  by @shred) combined  with  your helpful insight  seems to cover what is needed to get it right

 

thanks-to you and @shred

Edited October 27, 2023 by boatdoc173

[maur]

Ideally you grip with strong hand just enough to where you could hold the gun up with your strong hand only. For your weak hand, increase grip pressure gradually until your sight picture starts to shake, then back off slightly. Thats your optimal grip pressure. 

[rpm8300]

I'll preface that there is no 'right' answer - what has worked for me is support hand is very firm - if 100% is the literal max pressure I can physically apply, I'm probably at 80%. For the strong hand, I grip it about 70% but I've found if I leave the pinky a little looser, my trigger finger seems to move faster and more freely.

[Dirt222]

Isaac Lockwood has a great explanation on how he builds a grip. Strong hand grips the same as you would grip a bow. This gives true front to back pressure with the strong hand. Watch his you tube video. Then lots of build drills will tighten up your groups.