how hard a grip

[jimbullet]

Just wanting to know what everyone's doing with gripping the gun. 2011 pistol platform, I try to grip the gun strong and this sometimes causes some hits to go left. I tried to have a stronger weak hand and relaxing the strong hand for better trigger control, but this is causing shots to go high on the target.

 

I am having to rethink my grip and might be developing a bad habit. Question is how much tension do you have on your strong hand for a two handed grip? Can you describe it to be weak hand and strong hand being equally crushing strong, or mildly strong? I guess not relaxed a grip as this could cause shots to go up as well due to wrist break?

 

[shred]

https://brianenos.com/the-neutral-grip/

[Hperea]

Pretty good article.  I will try it next time.

[nhyrum]

I have heard some argue that a lot has changed since Brian shot. I wish I could find that discussion... But, I've not got enough experience to be able to tell you that. I've heard cha-lee's book is good too. I just bought it today.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[shred]

A lot has changed since Brian shot, but the basic mechanics haven't--- hold the gun on the target until the bullet leaves the barrel.

 

[Ssanders224]

9 minutes ago, shred said:

A lot has changed since Brian shot, but the basic mechanics haven't--- hold the gun on the target until the bullet leaves the barrel.

 

 

This. Use your eyes. Your hands will learn how to produce the results you want. 

 

I use this example sometimes:

Imagine walking up a flight of stairs while holding a cup of coffee filled to the rim. If you don't watch the coffee, it is certain to spill. Now imagine opening a heavy door with one hand while holding the coffee in the other. You don't THINK about how to move your body, or how to hold your arm... You just watch the coffee and your body automatically responds and anticipates in whatever way necessary to prevent the coffee from spilling. 

 

Shooting a pistol isn't dissimilar. Watch your sights (or dot) and let your vision keep them where they need to be. Your body will respond accordingly, just like it does with the coffee. With practice, it will become second nature, and your body will do an increasingly better job of responding to the input from your eyes, and anticipating movements. 

 

All that being said, grip the gun hard. 

Then work on your grip strength and grip the gun harder.  

[124gr9mm]

3 hours ago, Ssanders224 said:

 

This. Use your eyes. Your hands will learn how to produce the results you want. 

 

I use this example sometimes:

Imagine walking up a flight of stairs while holding a cup of coffee filled to the rim. If you don't watch the coffee, it is certain to spill. Now imagine opening a heavy door with one hand while holding the coffee in the other. You don't THINK about how to move your body, or how to hold your arm... You just watch the coffee and your body automatically responds and anticipates in whatever way necessary to prevent the coffee from spilling. 

 

Shooting a pistol isn't dissimilar. Watch your sights (or dot) and let your vision keep them where they need to be. Your body will respond accordingly, just like it does with the coffee. With practice, it will become second nature, and your body will do an increasingly better job of responding to the input from your eyes, and anticipating movements. 

 

All that being said, grip the gun hard. 

Then work on your grip strength and grip the gun harder.  

 

Thanks.

[jimbullet]

On 1/20/2020 at 3:10 PM, nhyrum said:

I have heard some argue that a lot has changed since Brian shot. I wish I could find that discussion... But, I've not got enough experience to be able to tell you that. I've heard cha-lee's book is good too. I just bought it today.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

What is the book called?

[jimbullet]

1 minute ago, jimbullet said:

What is the book called?

All good - I found it on another thread - thanks

 

[nhyrum]

https://bigpandaperformance.com/store-1/path-of-focused-effort-a-learning-guide-for-practical-shooting-1

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[lroy]

Pretty much everyone holds it differently. I find crushing it with the weak hand and holding the strong hand light enough to not effect the trigger work well.

 

I think it's also a good idea to run something like a bill drill or doubles and see where the shots end up. If you're right handed and the shots are left, ease up on your strong hand. If they're going right then grip harder with the strong hand, etc. I kind of picture it like steering a boat. 

 

Take this with a grain of salt, however, as I may be very dumb but it works for me.

[Trentmopar]

On 1/23/2020 at 6:06 AM, lroy said:

Pretty much everyone holds it differently. I find crushing it with the weak hand and holding the strong hand light enough to not effect the trigger work well.

 

I think it's also a good idea to run something like a bill drill or doubles and see where the shots end up. If you're right handed and the shots are left, ease up on your strong hand. If they're going right then grip harder with the strong hand, etc. I kind of picture it like steering a boat. 

 

Take this with a grain of salt, however, as I may be very dumb but it works for me.

Not dumb Iroy!!!  You are right we each hold a little differently.  Most important is experimenting with a ton of repetition until you find what fits your style best.  Of course there are the fundamentals but practice, practice, and more practice will prove what works for you and maybe not someone else.  Like you said take it with a grain of salt but I think you are correct in your statements.

[IronArcher]

Another for the strong support hand.
Basically, the best way I have heard to describe it is:
Strong hand, hold it like you would a hammer.
Support hand, CRUSH it! As much as you can without shaking.

[MemphisMechanic]

On 1/20/2020 at 9:38 AM, Ssanders224 said:

 

This. Use your eyes. Your hands will learn how to produce the results you want. 

 

I use this example sometimes:

Imagine walking up a flight of stairs while holding a cup of coffee filled to the rim. If you don't watch the coffee, it is certain to spill. Now imagine opening a heavy door with one hand while holding the coffee in the other. You don't THINK about how to move your body, or how to hold your arm... You just watch the coffee and your body automatically responds and anticipates in whatever way necessary to prevent the coffee from spilling. 

 

Shooting a pistol isn't dissimilar. Watch your sights (or dot) and let your vision keep them where they need to be. Your body will respond accordingly, just like it does with the coffee. With practice, it will become second nature, and your body will do an increasingly better job of responding to the input from your eyes, and anticipating movements. 

 

All that being said, grip the gun hard. 

Then work on your grip strength and grip the gun harder.  

That’s one of the best ways to break it down that I’ve ever heard. It really is and should be driven by what you’re seeing the sights do as the gun fires.

 

Are you SEEING the sight jerk offcenter as the gun fires?

Or are you keeping the sights centered... <BIGLOUDTHINGHAPPENS>... and then a hole appears offcenter?

 

 One of the gotchas is that it’s difficult to truly make dramatic improvements on grip and trigger control until your eyes stay open and you are fully observing the sights lift in recoil.
 

Guys are trying to work on the nuances of grip pressure when they still haven’t gotten rid of the blink/flinch. And you can’t direct a behavior that you aren’t honestly seeing yet.

 

I’m a strong proponent of (1) using subsonic ammo if possible and (2) always double-plugging when you’re a C-class or lower and trying to get good.

[jamautry]

Make sure when you relax your strong hand grip you keep your strong side wrist firm. An unlocking wrist will cause shoots to be high.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[bimmer1980]

Whats the problem when the gun is shaking while shooting fast. It doesn´t stop after the shot it´s shaking up and down like a spring.

[pjb45]

On 1/20/2020 at 8:14 AM, shred said:

A lot has changed since Brian shot, but the basic mechanics haven't--- hold the gun on the target until the bullet leaves the barrel.

 

+1

Pretty much summarizes trigger control.

There might be an article in an older FrontSight that BE provides advice.

 

Some people might try different standing positions, grip tension, finger placement to find what works best.  The key is not to move the gun until the shot breaks and you have a follow-through.

[MemphisMechanic]

22 hours ago, bimmer1980 said:

Whats the problem when the gun is shaking while shooting fast. It doesn´t stop after the shot it´s shaking up and down like a spring.

Two likely causes:

 

1. Change the way you’re gripping the gun. Concentrate on crushing the grip panels in from the sides. Fire a few shots. Try focusing all your grip pressure on the front and backstraps. Fire a few shots. Tighter. Tighter still. Back off a little. More stronghand. More weak hand. Etc.

 

2. Change recoil spring weight. If the front sight dips low then comes back into notch with the tightest grip you can manage? Your spring may be too heavy, slamming the slide home with excessive force.

 

But if your grip isn’t up to par, even a properly sprung gun will dip and/or wobble vertically. See all the videos of Taran Tactical’s “pro shooter” gun bunnies running drills, for proof of this.

Flippity floppity.  
 

Edited February 9, 2020 by MemphisMechanic

[bimmer1980]

Is "Pro Shooter" a Video series? I can´t find it in his Youtube playlists.

[Blackstone45]

2 hours ago, bimmer1980 said:

Is "Pro Shooter" a Video series? I can´t find it in his Youtube playlists.

No, I believe MM is making a reference to the scantily clad women shooting guns that feature in most of Taran's videos, and is sarcastically referring to them as pro shooters

[lroy]

1 hour ago, Blackstone45 said:

No, I believe MM is making a reference to the scantily clad women shooting guns that feature in most of Taran's videos, and is sarcastically referring to them as pro shooters

 

You're saying that's not what being a pro gets you? My world is crashing down.

[Denato1]

1 hour ago, lroy said:

 

You're saying that's not what being a pro gets you? My world is crashing down.

LOL

[Dranoel]

On 1/19/2020 at 8:25 PM, Hperea said:

Pretty good article.  I will try it next time.

 

Don't "try it".  UNDERSTAND it. 

I have friends that I shoot with that ask me, "How do you do that?" I answer them with a movie quote from Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man:  "I read a book.  Came with the gun."

 

For me, it was true. the day I bought my first 1911 was the day I received in the mail a book I had ordered a couple weeks before. ( this was before the innerwebs and online bookstores)"Practical Shooting: Beyond Fundamentals" by Brian Enos. 

I read it. Then read it again. Then read it trying to "picture" what he was saying. Then I went to the range and actually PRACTICED what he said.

 

HOLY MOTHER OF JESUS!!!!    You cannot BELIEVE how much it changed my shooting and how much it changed the way I LOOKED and SAW my shooting. From there it changed the way I looked at and saw EVERYTHING. 

 

To simplify his book I would say, " Stop complicating things and SEE what you are doing. Keep your grip simple and neutral. I have teached and preached this for more than 20 yrs. But just as important, OBSERVE what happens when you fire, move, etc and UNDERSTAND what is happening so that later you can examine it and improve.

 

[valerko]

I grip the crap out of it , but keep my trigger finger loose 

[CJW3]

I've always lived buy what Jerry said and that's you can not over grip the pistol. so I grip the s#!t out of it..