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nhyrum

Support hand slipping

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I've noticed, during longer strings I feel my support hand slipping. I notice it most that my thumb slips of my thumb rest. I can't really texture my hand... How would you guys texture aluminum?

 

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I've noticed, during longer strings I feel my support hand slipping. I notice it most that my thumb slips of my thumb rest. I can't really texture my hand... How would you guys texture aluminum?
 
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Relax your shooting hand and crush with the support hand way more

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For the thumb rest I would recommend trying to put a piece of grip tape on it. But that is not where your hand is actually slipping. Your support hand is most likely loosening up on the longer strings and you are seeing it in the thumb placement. I noticed this happening myself recently and the only thing that helped me was mentally reminding myself to continually crush with the left hand while running the stage. This might take away from your concentration on something else during the stage but after a match or 2 just focusing on this, It should alleviate itself  for the most part.

     After your make ready and right before you shoot the stage, try saying to yourself I will crush my support hand grip and use my sights. Then at that point let it all "go" and just shoot the stage. I have started to see inprovements in my shooting by doing this recently.

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Try a glove on your weak hand - I just started it, in practice, and a lot less slippage.     :) 

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Have you practice this during dry fire? This may build up some strength in your support hand. Also use some pro grip. That may help your situation.

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For the thumb rest I would recommend trying to put a piece of grip tape on it. But that is not where your hand is actually slipping. Your support hand is most likely loosening up on the longer strings and you are seeing it in the thumb placement. I noticed this happening myself recently and the only thing that helped me was mentally reminding myself to continually crush with the left hand while running the stage. This might take away from your concentration on something else during the stage but after a match or 2 just focusing on this, It should alleviate itself  for the most part.
     After your make ready and right before you shoot the stage, try saying to yourself I will crush my support hand grip and use my sights. Then at that point let it all "go" and just shoot the stage. I have started to see inprovements in my shooting by doing this recently.
Yeah, I know it's not where the slippage is happening, just where I notice it. For the longest time that's where I thought it was happening, but last time out I noticed it's the whole hand.

I'll try grip tape, and with my support hand index finger I grab the front of the trigger guard to pull against, maybe I'll put some there.

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A common root cause of support hand "slipping" or "displacing" during rapid fire is downward pressure on the support hand from the strong hand thumb. If your strong hand thumb lays on the heel of your support hand palm when gripping the gun it is very easy to displace your support hand by mashing your strong hand thumb into your support hand. The best way to test this is to simply point your strong hand thumb upwards so its not touching anything while gripping the gun and shooting aggressively.

 

I also want to point out that its very hard to diagnose this issue without seeing a picture of your grip on the gun or slow motion video while shooting aggressively. A slow motion video will give you the best feedback on what is really happening.

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A common root cause of support hand "slipping" or "displacing" during rapid fire is downward pressure on the support hand from the strong hand thumb. If your strong hand thumb lays on the heel of your support hand palm when gripping the gun it is very easy to displace your support hand by mashing your strong hand thumb into your support hand. The best way to test this is to simply point your strong hand thumb upwards so its not touching anything while gripping the gun and shooting aggressively.
 
I also want to point out that its very hard to diagnose this issue without seeing a picture of your grip on the gun or slow motion video while shooting aggressively. A slow motion video will give you the best feedback on what is really happening.
I'll get a slow motion video next time I'm out. I've got one, but it's the wrong side. I'll post it to maybe get help elsewhere though

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You'll have to download the video.https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5e1e605fc68d5/20191003_142934.mp4

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That video is pretty useless for diagnosing your weak hand issue, but closing your eyes during every shot seems like something you should stop doing. Wearing eye pro would probably help too.

Yikes

 

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That video is pretty useless for diagnosing your weak hand issue, but closing your eyes during every shot seems like something you should stop doing. Wearing eye pro would probably help too.
Yikes
 
Yeah, I knew it would be useless for the weak hand issue. I'll work on not blinking between shots, and eye pro. This was just from a random range trip (not an excuse) next video, I'll have eye pro on.

But thanks for the eye closing tip. I knew this would be useless for the support have issue, but not useless at finding things I need to improve on.

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Honestly that's terrifying to me that you'd even shoot one shot of a comped gun with no eye pro on. 

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Just now, waktasz said:

Honestly that's terrifying to me that you'd even shoot one shot of a comped gun with no eye pro on. 

...alright...

 

lesson learned. can we move past it? 

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im not trying to be an ass. I do know the value of eye pro. I wont let it happen again. sometimes i just get lazy. im not trying to make excuses, im really not. This is my first comped gun(which im sure is obvious) and have really no one close that i can talk to. I havent even been able to shoot in in a match yet.

 

but go ahead, give me an ass chewing. I deserve it, and i know it, and i know better.

Edited by nhyrum

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How new are you? If you don't have years of that grip ingrained into your brain I'd ditch the finger on the front of the trigger guard thing and just grip the gun the same as 99% of everyone else.  Even if you do, and a comped open gun is sliding around in your hand, obviously something is wrong and I'd suggest trying something else. Only a small handful of people are successfully using that grip. The good news is one of them happens to be the best shooter in the world, but I still don't think he recommends it to students. 

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I'll second not doing the finger on the front of the trigger guard. That's how I started shooting, and my weak hand jumped all over. After changing up my grip I was able to track the gun much better. I think my index finger now sits under the trigger guard, and my weak hand fingers are mostly squeezing on my strong hand.

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13 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

A common root cause of support hand "slipping" or "displacing" during rapid fire is downward pressure on the support hand from the strong hand thumb. If your strong hand thumb lays on the heel of your support hand palm when gripping the gun it is very easy to displace your support hand by mashing your strong hand thumb into your support hand. The best way to test this is to simply point your strong hand thumb upwards so its not touching anything while gripping the gun and shooting aggressively.

 

I also want to point out that its very hard to diagnose this issue without seeing a picture of your grip on the gun or slow motion video while shooting aggressively. A slow motion video will give you the best feedback on what is really happening.

I found that this was exactly what I was doing, gripping hard and pushing down on my weak hand with my strong hand thumb.

 

I practiced in dry fire drawing and transitioning with my strong thumb pointed upwards. During live fire, I would do the same thing as well as sort of 'wiggle' it around a little while shooting to help ingrain the thought of a relaxed thumb.

 

Not sure if that's the best way, but it's what I did and seemed to work well for me.

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How new are you? If you don't have years of that grip ingrained into your brain I'd ditch the finger on the front of the trigger guard thing and just grip the gun the same as 99% of everyone else.  Even if you do, and a comped open gun is sliding around in your hand, obviously something is wrong and I'd suggest trying something else. Only a small handful of people are successfully using that grip. The good news is one of them happens to be the best shooter in the world, but I still don't think he recommends it to students. 
2019 was my first year shooting competitively. I was only able to shoot thee matches, due to the closest one being a two hour drive away. And none were with this pistol, just my stock h&k vp9.

I know jumping right into the open class is a little like someone who has only swam a few laps in a pool trying to swim the English channel... Probably. Maybe everyone jumps to open. I dunno.

But I'm willing and wanting to learn, and I'm willing (I think) to admit my mistakes.

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14 hours ago, nhyrum said:

I do know the value of eye pro. I wont let it happen again. sometimes i just get lazy. im not trying to make excuses, im really not. This is my first comped gun(which im sure is obvious) and have really no one close that i can talk to. I havent even been able to shoot in in a match yet.

Not piling on, just want to point out one extremely important point since you mention you haven't shot in a match yet. When you shoot steel, jackets fly. They'll regularly sting you on your arms and legs and occasionally embed in the skin. I had one piece I had to pull out of my cheek, just below the glasses. Probably many more that hit my glasses that I haven't noticed.

 

That's why you'll get extra push-back in these forums. 

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43 minutes ago, nhyrum said:

I know jumping right into the open class is a little like someone who has only swam a few laps in a pool trying to swim the English channel... Probably.

Not really, shooting Open gun is easier than shooting other guns. The barrier is the cost of the gun and having to reload immediately, but you already have the gun and clearly you have the ammo too. Don't worry about it, just figure out how to shoot it well. 

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Your support hand is (should be) anchored to the grip with the fingers wrapping around the strong hand. If your thumb is slipping, the rest of your hand must be slipping too.

 

A guess (and just a guess) is that because you're using the finger on the trigger guard you are pulling with that finger to keep the gun from recoiling while not holding it tightly with the rest of the support hand. It should be the opposite - the support hand holds the combo of "pistol and strong hand" the way you would hold a rifle and control is through the pressure on the front of the grip, not by any pulling in downward direction. 

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2 hours ago, nhyrum said:

But I'm willing and wanting to learn, and I'm willing (I think) to admit my mistakes.

Great attitude.  Watch the good shooters around you, and listen.  You'll learn the right ways to do things. 

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Not piling on, just want to point out one extremely important point since you mention you haven't shot in a match yet. When you shoot steel, jackets fly. They'll regularly sting you on your arms and legs and occasionally embed in the skin. I had one piece I had to pull out of my cheek, just below the glasses. Probably many more that hit my glasses that I haven't noticed.
 
That's why you'll get extra push-back in these forums. 
Good point. I've shot in a few matches, just not this gun. And I've heard of people getting jacket blasted at them, but that was mostly ro's standing to the side.

What's funny (well not funny but...) About two years ago, I was doing some welding. In school, they always made us wear safety glasses under our hoods. I learned why. My hood flips up and has a grinding shield, one that's better than those cheap 2 dollar ones. Well, I was doing a little grinding, had the shield down, but no glasses under. A piece of metal hit my jacket just right, bounced up my jacket, under my hood, and right into my eye. Still hot, it imbedded itself actually into my eye. A few days later, after it not working itself out, a nice 400 dollar optometrist visit, he was able to remove most of it, then had to grind the rest out, and the rust. That made me not once more complain about having to wear safety glasses under my hood. I'd rather not have the same experience shooting, so, I think I'll buy a bunch of glasses and scatter then across my vehicles and bags.

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I tend to let my supporting hand, after a few rounds,  loose when shooting;  but since I have being reminded myself of this every time is happening less now..I guess I continue to grip hard then.

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