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Rollsizer - Sizing after Rollsizing


IVC
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I am about to pull a trigger on the Rollsizer since it seems to be *the* setup (at least at the moment) for getting uniform brass and passing the hundo gauge. I'm getting slightly frustrated with the number of cases not passing or barely passing the gauge... My normal 1050 setups use a U-die for sizing (9mm, .40, 38SC) since it was the most reliable way to get the brass to pass the gauge, but I am considering changing it and would need some advice.

 

First, after rollsizing, is there still a need to run a U-die? I am trying to minimize the amount of force (and vibration) that comes from the sizing station. I have been using One Shot to lube the brass (lightly) and it does wonders for the ease of operation, but I'm thinking that a regular die might be all that is needed now - the rollsized brass would need minimal reshaping to begin with, and not undersizing would make it run much smoother. Thoughts? 

 

Also, I am considering getting a different press (750) for brass processing. With a single toolhead I would keep a universal decapping die and just replace the sizing die and shellplate for processing different calibers, which is very easy and quick (the reason I would prefer it over 1050/1100). In addition, I could have a separate toolhead for calibers I don't reload much or often, so it would be at home on my bench. I know there are quite a few people who process brass in two steps, sizing on one machine and reloading on another. What would be the considerations for this setup if I were to use rollsized brass? Overkill to preprocess brass because the sizing on the primary press will be smooth? Add mouth expander to the processing step and eliminate sizing die from the primary press altogether (wouldn't be able to catch unsized brass)? Any ideas or suggestions?

 

Finally, the last part that makes my primary press not run smooth is the "popping MBF funnel." It seems that it just likes to pull the cases up no matter what. I have one setup where I expand mouth prior to powder station and MBF die still "pops." I have returned to the original Dillon powder funnel on one setup and it seems to be nicer. Any thoughts on the best setup for mouth expander in the setups I'm considering? 

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One - No U-Die should be needed if you are rollsizing or push through sizing the brass before reloading it. I primarily reload 40 cal and use the standard Dillon decapping/sizing die in my press.

 

Two  - Case Lube is still your friend while reloading even if the brass is roll sized. I use Hornady One Shot Case lube and it makes everything run smoother.

 

Three - If you are roll sizing the brass there is no need to "Process" the brass in another press before you reload it. Just let the reloading press do its job.

 

Four - The MBF Funnel has a lot more friction on the inside of the case which makes it stick to the funnel creating the "pop". This is where case lube will help minimize that issue. But realistically the Dillon dies are good enough to get the job done.

 

Five - Keep in mind that the rollsizer machine only resizes the bottom half of the case. This is done on purpose because your sizing and flaring dies in the press will resize the upper half of the case anyway.

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I used to use an undersized die for resizing. The amount of force needed to resize, even with case lube, was kinda much. Then the die started to shave the brass and forcing brass down towards the rim. Said forget it and got me a Case Pro. 
 

Best investment I made in reloading. I deprime on a single stage brass, that keeps the primer poop out of my reloader then I clean the brass via wet tumble with pins. 
 

Then I run it through the Case Pro and then lube and load. I no longer use the undersized die and just use the Dillon die. No problems passing the case gauge. 
 

As for the “popping”, with wet tumbling I find it more pronounced versus the dry media cleaning. I just try to keep the funnel clean. 

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Wet tumble makes pretty brass but it makes lubing of pistol cases necessary. That grime and dry tumble polish did a great job of lubing the inside of case mouth for expander. I went back to dry tumble for pistol. 
 

Case pro vs roll size... meh, depends how much you are reloading and what calibers. I bought a case pro from a guy here so I can fix some rims on my 30-06 cases... I reload a lot of surplus brass for M1 garand. if I was shooting a lot of pistol, Rollsizer. 

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Thanks guys - it seems that after rollsizing, just run it on 1050 and it will be smooth, particularly after removing the U-die. Possibly go back to Dillon funnels instead of MBF, especially if there are no issues with seating (coated) bullets. 

Edited by IVC
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I rollsize after I process my brass. I run a used mark7 on a 650 to deprime and size brass (U die). Then it gets washed again.  That brass gets rollsized and also keeps the machine clean.  I was finding (was I the only one?) that otherwise some cases would travel upwards during rollsizing using regular fired brass.

 

I have piles of ready to load brass, just waiting for spring and an automated evolution (not a revo) to load it with (stupid ITAR rules) 

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2 hours ago, MikeyScuba said:

I rollsize after I process my brass. I run a used mark7 on a 650 to deprime and size brass (U die). Then it gets washed again.  That brass gets rollsized and also keeps the machine clean.  I was finding (was I the only one?) that otherwise some cases would travel upwards during rollsizing using regular fired brass.

 

I have piles of ready to load brass, just waiting for spring and an automated evolution (not a revo) to load it with (stupid ITAR rules) 

 

U die and roll size seems overkill, no? 

 

 

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I wash, dry, rollsize, then decap/size. Since I started roll sizing I do not need to use case lube on my brass, which means I don't have to wash a second time. I process my brass on an automated 1050 while loading on a Revolution. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/24/2019 at 8:27 PM, DJRyan13 said:

 

U die and roll size seems overkill, no? 

 

 

Wouldn’t you want to roll size then resize? If there’s a buldge in the case, casepro eliminates it for you. Sizing die might not take it out completely and just push it towards the bottom.

 

i still like the u due personally on 9 major to prevent push back....but maybe it’s overkill 

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I used to roll size and still had issues with 40s failing to gauge. I changed bullet manufacturers and the issue went away. I loaded 1000 with brass straight out of the tumbler tonight and every single one case gauged in a xl hundo. Have you tried taking your 40s that fail and putting them in the gauge backwards? That will tell you if you have a brass issue. Otherwise it’s bullet sizing/ profile/ seating

 

741c423436588b0f8536e0393d3eefd9.jpg

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

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On 12/24/2019 at 8:27 PM, DJRyan13 said:

 

U die and roll size seems overkill, no? 

 

 

Maybe but as I already had my tool head setup and perfected when I switched from bulge busting one at a time to roll sizing.

 

I shoot revo mostly so the U die is there to help the bullet from creeping out.  I’m not sure if rollsizing helps moon clip extraction as Ive never load unrolled or unbulged cases. But it’s one problem we’ve never had.

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21 minutes ago, MikeyScuba said:

Maybe but as I already had my tool head setup and perfected when I switched from bulge busting one at a time to roll sizing.

 

I shoot revo mostly so the U die is there to help the bullet from creeping out.  I’m not sure if rollsizing helps moon clip extraction as Ive never load unrolled or unbulged cases. But it’s one problem we’ve never had.

 

If you're shooting revolver, shouldn't you be using bullets with a canallure and roll crimp vs. excess case tension and a taper crimp?  The problem with the U-die is it sizes the case way beyond what's needed.  It only takes a couple thousandths or an inch undersize to prevent setback.  I use a Redding carbide size die and it does this just fine without the extra effort in running the press and without ammo that looks like a fat chick in tight pants.  

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I don’t know anyone who uses a bullet with a canallure.  What I’m doing is “wrong” on so many levels if experts on this board are to be believed.

 

I am loading 9mm with a .358 sized 165gr.

 Lee 9mm u die

lee FCD 9mm die with excessive crimp.

 

I get a ring in the plating but no bullet creep.

 

yet this works, any inaccuracies are from my lack of visual patience.  I was doing group shooting in 1’ of snow back in November.  At the tree line (15-20yards?)I started to get bravos while SHO.  Ran out of sunlight to try WHO.

 

I’m also up to 8 or 9 loadings on my brass. I load out to 1.185 so they look fine.

 

Christmas match 

CA1BAB03-EF1B-4B15-80EB-DC231CCD0238.jpeg

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Not trying to tell you what to do, but my understanding is that a taper crimp, which is used for semi-auto rounds isn't intended to hold the bullet, whether you're trying to avoid setback in semi-auto or creep in a revolver.  Bullets with canallures are designed for revolvers and used with a roll crimp specifically to prevent creep due to recoil. 

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Isn’t over taper crimping akin to a roll crimp?  Because that is what I’m doing.

 

my dummy rounds have a crazy crimp (plated, coated don’t last in revo practice).The first ones I made last year kept falling apart and I’d have to jam the bullets in making the oal too short.  The second proper batch have not budged.  

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I'm not sure if it's going to be a roll or taper, but it sure sounds like it's excessive for that type of bullet.  Revolver bullets that need a heavy crimp to prevent creep from recoil were designed with canallures specifically for that reason.

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  • 1 month later...

I have a roll sizer on order. They recommend roll sizing before fl sizing but I don't know why.

 

I have a bunch of already fl sized brass and plan to roll size a sample then see if they pass the guage, etc. or if they need to be fl sized a second time.

 

For future batches I plan to roll before fl sizing...

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