Classifier 06-04 Fluffy's Revenge 1

[IVC]

Probably discussed in the past quite a bit, but here it goes...

 

At an all classifier USPSA match on Sunday I shot Revolver Minor (S&W 929) to get some additional scores. (My main division is Limited and I shoot Revolver classifiers as an add-on during my regular bi-weekly matches.) One of the classifiers was 06-04 and the hit factors seemed to be awfully generous, for the lack of better term. The GM cutoff is at 9.37, which is about 4.25 seconds for a clean run. Further, the way targets are arranged, it's mostly clean runs anyways because no-shoots nicely frame the A zone. I shot it in 3.63 seconds, not rushing at all, yet well below the cutoff time for a GM. The only reason it wasn't a 100%+ run is that I pulled the initial shot just a tad into the no-shoot, but that's another story. 

 

Thinking about it, it seems that the 4.25s GM time would be shooting *major* with one reload (~1s draw, ~2s reload, ~.2 for splits/transitions, give or take for faster draw and reload and slower transitions). 

 

First, is this thinking correct? If so, it feels like cheating if HHF is based on the historical pre-minor scores on classifiers that have string(s) with 8 shots and that now eliminate the reload when shot in minor. Is this going to get fixed by the USPSA? While I do want to do well on classifiers and move up (that 100% would've pushed me into M class), I really don't want to get there by falling through the cracks. Thoughts on this in general?

 

 

[PatJones]

I thought most of the revolver hit factors had been sorted out. Looking at my classifier history, several of the high hit factors dropped at the last update.

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[J_Allen]

I personally wouldn’t worry about feeling like you cheated the system or anything. Although a 100% run can pull up your classification percentage, if that one score is what is bumping you to M, then you were close anyway. It sounds like you shot the classifier like any other stage, so you approached it the right way, rather than trying to hero or zero the stage. So in my mind enjoy the bump and congrats!

 

I am in the opposite boat - I started USPSA in Revolver after the transition to the 8 shot minor guns... with a S&W 625. Standing reloads on 8 shot arrays will really hurt your classification scores. So while I am a solid C class shooter (in other words totally pedestrian), I am still stuck in D class Revo because I haven’t run enough classifiers since switching to my S&W 627 (most of last year I shot Limited instead). I would have done it last fall at the last club match I shot, but we ended up doing the Go Fast, Don’t Suck postal match instead, so no classifier.

 

Jason

[J_Allen]

This post really got me thinking about this possibly happening in my last classifier - Diamond Cutter (09-02). More details here:  

 

Did I get a good classification because I used a 8 shot gun in a historical classifier, or have the HHF been updated? This is becoming a very interesting topic, in thinking about when a major paradigm shift happens in a division and how the classifications respond.

Edited December 24, 2019 by J_Allen
Direct link to my other post

[MWP]

On 12/23/2019 at 10:54 AM, IVC said:

Probably discussed in the past quite a bit, but here it goes...

 

At an all classifier USPSA match on Sunday I shot Revolver Minor (S&W 929) to get some additional scores. (My main division is Limited and I shoot Revolver classifiers as an add-on during my regular bi-weekly matches.) One of the classifiers was 06-04 and the hit factors seemed to be awfully generous, for the lack of better term. The GM cutoff is at 9.37, which is about 4.25 seconds for a clean run. Further, the way targets are arranged, it's mostly clean runs anyways because no-shoots nicely frame the A zone. I shot it in 3.63 seconds, not rushing at all, yet well below the cutoff time for a GM. The only reason it wasn't a 100%+ run is that I pulled the initial shot just a tad into the no-shoot, but that's another story. 

 

Thinking about it, it seems that the 4.25s GM time would be shooting *major* with one reload (~1s draw, ~2s reload, ~.2 for splits/transitions, give or take for faster draw and reload and slower transitions). 

 

First, is this thinking correct? If so, it feels like cheating if HHF is based on the historical pre-minor scores on classifiers that have string(s) with 8 shots and that now eliminate the reload when shot in minor. Is this going to get fixed by the USPSA? While I do want to do well on classifiers and move up (that 100% would've pushed me into M class), I really don't want to get there by falling through the cracks. Thoughts on this in general?

 

 

Old HHF was 6.2 or 6.3 for the 6 major guns. New 8 shot HHF is what you said- 9.4ish. 

[IVC]

Thanks - good to hear. I still find it quite lenient on this particular classifier, but I must be getting better with all the dryfire practice I'm putting into my Limited shooting. The draws, transitions, calling shots, etc. are all transferable between divisions and I've done my share of revo reload practice too.

 

When I analyzed my runs at the match (six classifier stages) my times on 5 of the 6 were good enough for 100%+ and only on El Presidente was my time only good enough for 86%. With points, I ended up with 91%, 85%, 82%, 75%, high-D and a 0. Puts into perspective the value of points in minor, particularly since I believe my C-s and a few D-s were just sloppy handling, not anything that was because of rushing - I (mostly) knew where I missed and it was because the gun recoiled slightly to the side (sloppy grip). 

 

Well, after tonight I should be A class at 81% which includes two high B scores. Need one 95% or two 85% runs for M. At least I have a goal for this year

[MWP]

It’s very difficult to properly set revolver classifiers HHF. This is just an example of that. 

[IVC]

On 12/24/2019 at 6:39 AM, J_Allen said:

Although a 100% run can pull up your classification percentage, if that one score is what is bumping you to M, then you were close anyway.

Well, I shot a 100% classifier 18-06 "For That Day" during my regular match on 12/28 and it's sitting there in the system with the "P" flag until the classification program runs this Tuesday, at which point I should be a Master. Quite happy about that...

[J_Allen]

7 minutes ago, IVC said:

Well, I shot a 100% classifier 18-06 "For That Day" during my regular match on 12/28 and it's sitting there in the system with the "P" flag until the classification program runs this Tuesday, at which point I should be a Master. Quite happy about that...

Congrats!

[Toolguy]

Shouldn't this be in the USPSA forum? Not a big deal, just curious.

[jcc7x7]

1 hour ago, IVC said:

Well, I shot a 100% classifier 18-06 "For That Day" during my regular match on 12/28 and it's sitting there in the system with the "P" flag until the classification program runs this Tuesday, at which point I should be a Master. Quite happy about that...

Good on ya!

Congratulations.

 

[PatJones]

Shouldn't this be in the USPSA forum? Not a big deal, just curious.

The original question was revolver specificish.

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[pskys2]

3 hours ago, Toolguy said:

Shouldn't this be in the USPSA forum? Not a big deal, just curious.

Nah, the bottom feeders don't appreciate real guns and the skill it takes one to run them!

 

Oh and CONGRATULATIONS and welcome to the fold!

Edited December 31, 2019 by pskys2

[MikeyScuba]

Congrats!

[IVC]

Thanks - I now need to start performing at that level :).

 

It's one thing to shoot a bunch of classifiers, and quite another to do well in matches. Luckily, most of the training I do in Limited is directly applicable in Revolver - movement, transitions, calling shots, shooting sooner, etc. I'm hanging in with the M/A guys in Limited and would beat them on a few stages every match, but the consistency is not there yet. I feel like a high-B shooter (which was my classification), where I pretty much beat all the rest of the B guys on all stages where I don't mess up. Now, I'm going to be that low-A guy... Oh, well. 

 

Too bad we don't have enough Revolver shooters to make it worthwhile to shoot Revolver regularly and be able to compare. We have one Revolver GM and a few A guys, but they also all shoot other divisions quite often, so it would be a hit or miss as far as competition goes...

[PatJones]

Thanks - I now need to start performing at that level .
 
It's one thing to shoot a bunch of classifiers, and quite another to do well in matches. Luckily, most of the training I do in Limited is directly applicable in Revolver - movement, transitions, calling shots, shooting sooner, etc. I'm hanging in with the M/A guys in Limited and would beat them on a few stages every match, but the consistency is not there yet. I feel like a high-B shooter (which was my classification), where I pretty much beat all the rest of the B guys on all stages where I don't mess up. Now, I'm going to be that low-A guy... Oh, well. 
 
Too bad we don't have enough Revolver shooters to make it worthwhile to shoot Revolver regularly and be able to compare. We have one Revolver GM and a few A guys, but they also all shoot other divisions quite often, so it would be a hit or miss as far as competition goes...

Here in Eastern Colorado we have one GM and 3 Masters in revolver, but like everywhere else we all shoot more than one division.

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[Alaskan454]

On 12/24/2019 at 11:46 PM, MWP said:

It’s very difficult to properly set revolver classifiers HHF. This is just an example of that. 

This, I have submitted requests to USPSA to raise HHFs before and no change. I'm guessing they need more data to justify a bump.  Some of the recent ones are awfully generous.   

 

If you want a better estimate shoot an ICORE Limited classifier, the peak times on those are more accurate in my experience.