Mixing SEAR springs

[rowdyb]

I have a couple X5 Legions. In them I have the GG trigger kit with the curved trigger option. Everything is installed but I kept the two stock trigger return springs. Why? In the first of the three trigger kits I installed I did not like the mushy feeling and vague reset with the two kit springs in.

 

Has anyone installed 1 kit and 1 stock spring? As it takes just 20 minutes start to finish I'll probably try it anyways but was still looking for first hand experience.

Edited December 19, 2019 by rowdyb

[ClangClang]

No, but I'll be following this thread with great curiosity. For a variety of reasons, I've switched from tuned CZ Shadows into X5 Legions for the upcoming season. Didn't care for the stock trigger, so I installed GG kits. Still not satisfied with the triggers mostly related to length of pre/over travel, so I just received 2 Keres triggers to try out - hopefully I can make it to the range this weekend. I can feel the vagueness you're talking about as well, but it doesn't bother me nearly as much as the travel issue.

[zhunter]

The NEW Gray Guns Hybrid Competition Kit comes with they new GG’s adjustable over travel trigger.  It is supposed to start shipping next week.  I spoke to Keres, and they were very honest and forthcoming about their trigger and the GG Competition Trigger Kit.  They said due to the geometry of the trigger bar attachment on the Keres trigger it would raise the trigger pull weight of the X-FIVE Legion as the Legion has a different geometry to the P320 X-FIVE non-Legion.

 

I thanked them for their honesty, I thought it was actually amazing.

 

They did say they would eventually make a X-FIVE Legion specific trigger, but it was not in the pipeline anytime soon.

Edited December 20, 2019 by zhunter

[rowdyb]

So I have noticed as well that the curved 320 trigger I am using in my GG kit does also seem to result in an increase in poundage versus the kit with the stock flat trigger installed. I just hate flat triggers hahahaha. (5 years of only shooting CZ's) So none of the aftermarket triggers interest me as they aren't truly curved.

 

Over travel and pre travel don't bother me in the GG kit. I can deal with that. A clean 3# break with a positive reset is all I want w a curved trigger is all i want hahaha

[Rolex]

1 hour ago, zhunter said:

The NEW Gray Guns Hybrid Competition Kit comes with they new GG’s adjustable over travel trigger.  It is supposed to start shipping next week.  I spoke to Keres, and they were very honest and forthcoming about their trigger and the GG Competition Trigger Kit.  They said due to the geometry of the trigger bar attachment on the Keres trigger it would raise the trigger pull weight of the X-FIVE Legion as the Legion has a different geometry to the P320 X-FIVE non-Legion.

 

I thanked them for their honesty, I thought it was actually amazing.

 

They did say they would eventually make a X-FIVE Legion specific trigger, but it was not in the pipeline anytime soon.

 

If anyone is interested, I have a new/unopened original GG’s Competition Trigger kit that I will sell for $100.  Let me know if interested.  (Not trying to derail this thread but figured this was a good place to throw this out there.

Interesting- I have the GG comp kit in my Legion with the Keres pro adj trigger and my pull is 2 3/4 pounds-

enough for me- 

[rowdyb]

X5 Legion, GG kit, curved trigger, 2 stock trs = 4.0 pound trigger

 

all of the above but 1 stock, 1 kit trs = 3.75 lbs

 

both kit trs =3.50lbs in my guns.

[zhunter]

The new Hybrid kit has a “snappy trigger return spring” which might help with any mushy feeling

[rowdyb]

EDIT. I wasn't thinking and used wrong wrong wrong terminology. I mean the two sear, sear springs.

[ddc]

22 hours ago, rowdyb said:

EDIT. I wasn't thinking and used wrong wrong wrong terminology. I mean the two sear, sear springs.

Thanks for clarification. I was pretty sure you meant "sear" but good to know for sure.

[hiflyer51]

I have the GG competition kit in both of my Legions. When I subbed the Keres pro adj trigger I did not notice any increase in trigger pull. I like the reduced overtravel and pretravel.

Both guns were under 3# with the GG kit. I have not checked with the Keres trigger installed . If the Keres trigger increased the trigger pull, it is not by much. I will get it measured sometime.

 

[ddc]

On 12/19/2019 at 9:11 AM, zhunter said:

The NEW Gray Guns Hybrid Competition Kit comes with they new GG’s adjustable over travel trigger.  It is supposed to start shipping next week.  I spoke to Keres, and they were very honest and forthcoming about their trigger and the GG Competition Trigger Kit.  They said due to the geometry of the trigger bar attachment on the Keres trigger it would raise the trigger pull weight of the X-FIVE Legion as the Legion has a different geometry to the P320 X-FIVE non-Legion.

 

I thanked them for their honesty, I thought it was actually amazing.

 

They did say they would eventually make a X-FIVE Legion specific trigger, but it was not in the pipeline anytime soon.

This is the first I've heard that the Legion had different geometry than the regular X5.

Can anyone confirm?

[Archangelgt]

Not sure how the tactical pontoon sear springs stack up compared to the GG, but I think they dropped my trigger pull weight around 1lb compared to the stock sear springs w/o changing my reset. 

 

 

[Rich406]

12 hours ago, ddc said:

This is the first I've heard that the Legion had different geometry than the regular X5.

Can anyone confirm?

the legion has a different trigger bar.

[jpeters11]

I can confirm. Exactly as Keres said, doubled my pull weight, so I went back to stock. 

 

Impatiently waiting for the Armory Craft trigger which is supposed to use the same geometry as the legion but with set screws 

[Archangelgt]

The factory Legion trigger does have some sort of geometry difference than the factory curve trigger, not sure about the standard X5 though. When I put the sig curved trigger in my Legion (w/legion trigger bar) the pull weight jumped up quite a bit. I have to look back at my Notes to see how much. 

[rowdyb]

6 hours ago, Archangelgt said:

the pull weight jumped up quite a bit.

yeah, if i use the stock x5 legion trigger with the GG kit my pull is 3.0 lbs. do nothing else but pop in the curved trigger and it jumps up to 3.75 lbs

[Rolex]

On 12/21/2019 at 9:30 AM, jpeters11 said:

I can confirm. Exactly as Keres said, doubled my pull weight, so I went back to stock. 

 

Impatiently waiting for the Armory Craft trigger which is supposed to use the same geometry as the legion but with set screws 

I have no idea why they are saying that?? My Legion with the GG comp kit and the Keres pro trigger is down to 2 3/4 pounds!

[jpeters11]

10 minutes ago, Rolex said:

I have no idea why they are saying that?? My Legion with the GG comp kit and the Keres pro trigger is down to 2 3/4 pounds!

Maybe they changed it, maybe the GG kit brought they weight back down. 

All I can say is I installed a keres into my otherwise stock Legion (~10k rounds fired “trigger job”) and the pull weight was increased. Promptly sold it after 5 minutes of dry fire

[Rolex]

17 hours ago, jpeters11 said:

Maybe they changed it, maybe the GG kit brought they weight back down. 

All I can say is I installed a keres into my otherwise stock Legion (~10k rounds fired “trigger job”) and the pull weight was increased. Promptly sold it after 5 minutes of dry fire

SO  yours was stock- others are not really having that issue- maybe more seasoned shooters? 

[rowdyb]

Not sure if I can be considered "seasoned" but I do notice a difference in feel between a striker being released and a hammer being released. The spring forces are on a different axis and the mechanical engagements are different. I am working on improving my grip and how I manipulate the trigger on these guns. The accuracy at medium to far (15 yards plus) distances I am unhappy with is all down to my bad vision and trigger finger. So I did a little to the gun to help, make decent ammo and now all the rest is on me.

[RH45]

I already had 2, P320 Xfives, with Bruce Gray competition trigger kits, when the Legions came out. They have no overtravel, but, when I'm shooting slow, I notice a lot of creep on the first shot, but, if I ride the sear until it just resets the trigger, there's no creep. I don't remember the exact weight. Somewhere between 2.25-2.75#

I replaced one of the grip frames with the Legion, tungsten infused grip, but, don't think I'm going to spend $200 to put one on my back-up gun.

[jimbullet]

On 12/23/2019 at 2:27 PM, rowdyb said:

yeah, if i use the stock x5 legion trigger with the GG kit my pull is 3.0 lbs. do nothing else but pop in the curved trigger and it jumps up to 3.75 lbs

Hi, I just came across this thread and I am wanting to achieve a 3 lb pull or very close to it without going lower and preferably with the least mushy feeling. I can see that you have achieved this!

 

So what exactly did you install? GG sear, retained factor sear springs (both or just one) and the GG trigger spring - while using original trigger?

[rowdyb]

16 hours ago, jimbullet said:

Hi, I just came across this thread and I am wanting to achieve a 3 lb pull or very close to it without going lower and preferably with the least mushy feeling. I can see that you have achieved this!

 

So what exactly did you install? GG sear, retained factor sear springs (both or just one) and the GG trigger spring - while using original trigger?

That gun is so long gone sold I can't remember. 

Gg curved trigger and sear, stock sear springs, ac extra power trigger return spring is what I run in my axg pro 320