new recoil system

[TRUBL]

Negate the need to reduce the gas for a more reliable system.....223 and 308

Edited December 18, 2019 by TRUBL

[MJinPA]

I don’t get it. Do you have details of how it works? Is this just playing with buffer weights?


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[TonytheTiger]

Whats it weigh?

[TRUBL]

1.5 ounces

[mrd]

OK, I'll take a guess. Hydraulic dampening in both ends of the buffer? So it softens both the impulse of hitting the stock AND going back into battery.

 

Smart to make it light. Easier to add a weight, than to remove.

Edited December 19, 2019 by mrd

[mpom]

https://taccom3g.com/product/223-three-stage-recoil-system/

 

Looks like a spring is in the buffer, so it softens the blow of bolt carrier at end of rear travel, not obvious how its reduces muzzle dip as bolt locks into barrel extension. Don't see where there is room for hydraulic fluid...

 

Mark

Edited December 20, 2019 by mpom

[TonytheTiger]

So as a happy Ti carrier, ULW recoil system, light spring, rifle gas, low powered hosing ammo, adjustable gas block, gucci brake user, what does this system do for me?

[TRUBL]

No hydro.....all mechanical. What we did to soften the 9mm we did here. The benefit is that you do not need to turn the gas down as much. We all know the Ar platform is WAAAAYYYY over gassed.....but to achieve minimal recoil we lighten the system and because we lighten the system the speed increases.....so the only way to slow the lowered mass down (till now) is to turn the gas down, but to be honest, we tend to go tooooo far and end up with a rifle that is not as reliable as it should be. the gun gets dirty and we short stroke or we compensate by giving the gas system 'a 1/4 turn more' for function (at the cost of more felt recoil). By going with a 2nd stage cushion......turn the gas up a little (and even a little more) will not increase felt reccoil and give you a more reliable recoil system. We actually reccomend that once you get the sytem to just function that you turn the gas up one full turn.

 

So I'm tredding on thin ice here.......but I am coming from the stand point of being an engineer and explaining the dynamics behind the buffer system. It's just another way to help defeat felt recoil......there are other ways too. 

 

Sooooo....Tony, if you system is reliable and felt recoil is to you liking.....should you change it? If you are happy with it now......absolutely not!! If you are a tinkerer....well, you know what you need to do then. But that's up to you, I just give the info, the facts, based on my engineering experience.....you get to decide if I'm actually right, or pounding sand. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by TRUBL

[Yondering]

It looks like you've made a buffer that softens the stop at the rear of bolt carrier travel. Great. But - if you're claiming it eliminates the need to restrict gas on an overgassed rifle, how does this do anything to delay unlocking? Early unlocking is one of the main problems with an overgassed AR. 

 

Seems like your product only addresses felt recoil, which is just one of the issues with an overgassed rifle. 

[Nolan]

8 hours ago, TRUBL said:

 We actually reccomend that once you get the sytem to just function that you turn the gas up one full turn.

 

5 hours ago, Yondering said:

It looks like you've made a buffer that softens the stop at the rear of bolt carrier travel. Great. But - if you're claiming it eliminates the need to restrict gas on an overgassed rifle, how does this do anything to delay unlocking? Early unlocking is one of the main problems with an overgassed AR. 

 

Seems like your product only addresses felt recoil, which is just one of the issues with an overgassed rifle. 

 

Doesn't sound to me like he said to run the rifle overgassed?  

 

Nolan

[Yondering]

On 12/18/2019 at 11:19 AM, TRUBL said:

Negate the need to reduce the gas for a more reliable system.....223 and 308

 

 

Really Nolan? First line of the first post... 

[TonytheTiger]

15 hours ago, TRUBL said:

If you are a tinkerer....well, you know what you need to do then. 

That about sums up where all my money goes..

[Nolan]

23 hours ago, Yondering said:

 

Really Nolan? First line of the first post... 

 

On 12/20/2019 at 6:02 AM, TRUBL said:

The benefit is that you do not need to turn the gas down as much. We all know the Ar platform is WAAAAYYYY over gassed.....but to achieve minimal recoil we lighten the system and because we lighten the system the speed increases.....so the only way to slow the lowered mass down (till now) is to turn the gas down, but to be honest, we tend to go tooooo far and end up with a rifle that is not as reliable as it should be. the gun gets dirty and we short stroke or we compensate by giving the gas system 'a 1/4 turn more' for function (at the cost of more felt recoil). By going with a 2nd stage cushion......turn the gas up a little (and even a little more) will not increase felt reccoil and give you a more reliable recoil system. We actually reccomend that once you get the sytem to just function that you turn the gas up one full turn.

 

Really Yodelling?  I read more than just the first line.....I read all of the posts?  Did you?

 

Nolan

[TRUBL]

On 12/20/2019 at 11:52 AM, Yondering said:

It looks like you've made a buffer that softens the stop at the rear of bolt carrier travel. Great. But - if you're claiming it eliminates the need to restrict gas on an overgassed rifle, how does this do anything to delay unlocking? Early unlocking is one of the main problems with an overgassed AR. 

 

Seems like your product only addresses felt recoil, which is just one of the issues with an overgassed rifle. 

My bad and I should explain......yes, this system DOES negate the need to reduce the gas and you CAN run the system over gassed and actually still reduce the felt recoil over a stock system.......however, you will want to reduce the gas to get the optimal reduction in felt recoil, it’s just that with this system you do not need to reduce the gas as much, it’s not as finicky per say. With an adjustable gas system, we do still recommend starting at zero gas and adjusting out till you get function......then normally everyone sayS go another 1/4 turn out, whereas we state to go out another full turn.....this gives you better reliability with darn better felt recoil reduction......you can still do what the masses say and it’ll probably be fine....but at that point we will take the extra reliability over the possibility of a slight reduction in recoil any day.  But if you feel the need to only go a 1/4 turn out more then by all means do it......worst case, you’ll end up turning it out a little more.

[PacMan]

What TACCOM just did with this 3-stage recoil system is to give the lightened mass/recoil system a little bit more operating window.  My Ti carrier/adj gas/UL recoil works great but to have it run 100% throughout the entire 3 days match, I have to open up the gas setting a bit.

[RaylanGivens]

Is it possible to adapt a standard 223 AR-15 to run an adjustable gas system like this?

 

I built a SPR AR-15 years ago and am thinking about using it to start shooting PRS...  I'm currently shooting a short stroked 9mm rifle in USPSA's PCC division, but understand that blow back 9mm carbines are fundamentally different from gas guns...  Wondering if it would be possible to upgrade the gas system and buffer/spring parts to shoot better/faster/with less recoil.

 

[TRUBL]

6 hours ago, PacMan said:

What TACCOM just did with this 3-stage recoil system is to give the lightened mass/recoil system a little bit more operating window.  My Ti carrier/adj gas/UL recoil works great but to have it run 100% throughout the entire 3 days match, I have to open up the gas setting a bit.

Well said!!!

 

and as for pcc, there is a 3 stage recoil system made specifically for that 

[JFors]

Trubal,

I have a few questions in regard of this system working in conjunction to a short barrel rifle/pistol build. Has this worked reliably in short barrels? I am assuming yes to my first question with my second one. Seeing that the buffer is lighter then normal buffers, would it make underpowered ammunition (I.E. Wolf and similar cheap practice ammo) work more reliably in more finicky short barrel guns? I am quite interested in this buffer.

[TRUBL]

6 hours ago, JFors said:

Trubal,

I have a few questions in regard of this system working in conjunction to a short barrel rifle/pistol build. Has this worked reliably in short barrels? I am assuming yes to my first question with my second one. Seeing that the buffer is lighter then normal buffers, would it make underpowered ammunition (I.E. Wolf and similar cheap practice ammo) work more reliably in more finicky short barrel guns? I am quite interested in this buffer.

Pretty sure that you have answered both questions.....yes

[021411]

Got my buffer in today. Test and tune in the AM and will run it at a club match on Saturday. I’ll update with my thoughts. 

[JFors]

Thanks Trubal. I assumed I was right, but I did not want to go off my own assumption. I should be getting one once my gun fund recovers from this holiday season.

 

[021411]

Let me start off my saying that I'm not a sponsored shooter. I am not endorsed by anyone. The Taccom 223 Three Stage Recoil System was purchased at full price and done out of sheer curiosity. I like new and shiny things.

 

The setup: Stretch barrel intermediate gas with an adjustable gas block, LW BCG, Taccom Carbine Recoil System buffer, reduced power buffer spring, Ultradyne Apollo S, brake, Federal 55gr FMJ

My match rifle has been reliable and very soft shooting. There is really no perceived "thump" on the shoulder.

 

I swapped in the new buffer today and re-tuned the gas block for the same ammo I always use at matches. I increased the gas one full turn once the bolt started to lock back to give it a bit more juice. I fired off two full mags at varying cadence to get a sense of how the impulse felt and to check if there were any cycling issues. I then swapped back in the two piece buffer that I had no issues with. To be honest I could NOT feel a perceived difference in recoil between the two. If it was there I could not tell. 

 

Here are the buffer weights if you're curious. My postal scale is not certified but it is accurate. An H2 buffer is known to be 4.6 oz. I weighed an H2 and it's right on the money at 4.6 oz.

The two piece Taccom buffer weighs 1.1 oz. The new three stage buffer is 1.9 oz.

 

Is this new system worth $49.95? If you already have a working and reliable setup then save your money and buy more ammo. If you're starting fresh, wouldn't hurt..

Edited December 28, 2019 by 021411

[TRUBL]

On 12/27/2019 at 6:26 PM, 021411 said:

Let me start off my saying that I'm not a sponsored shooter. I am not endorsed by anyone. The Taccom 223 Three Stage Recoil System was purchased at full price and done out of sheer curiosity. I like new and shiny things.

 

The setup: Stretch barrel intermediate gas with an adjustable gas block, LW BCG, Taccom Carbine Recoil System buffer, reduced power buffer spring, Ultradyne Apollo S, brake, Federal 55gr FMJ

My match rifle has been reliable and very soft shooting. There is really no perceived "thump" on the shoulder.

 

I swapped in the new buffer today and re-tuned the gas block for the same ammo I always use at matches. I increased the gas one full turn once the bolt started to lock back to give it a bit more juice. I fired off two full mags at varying cadence to get a sense of how the impulse felt and to check if there were any cycling issues. I then swapped back in the two piece buffer that I had no issues with. To be honest I could NOT feel a perceived difference in recoil between the two. If it was there I could not tell. 

 

Here are the buffer weights if you're curious. My postal scale is not certified but it is accurate. An H2 buffer is known to be 4.6 oz. I weighed an H2 and it's right on the money at 4.6 oz.

The two piece Taccom buffer weighs 1.1 oz. The new three stage buffer is 1.9 oz.

 

Is this new system worth $49.95? If you already have a working and reliable setup then save your money and buy more ammo. If you're starting fresh, wouldn't hurt..

That is rather interesting.......I noticed that you mentioined that you opened the gas up from the original TACCOM buffer set up, which would make the system more reliable as a rule. And you didn't notice any difference between the two. Was there any difference in muzzle rise? Did you change the gas settings between the two systems when you did the comparison? Reports we've been getting back is that while there isn't much difference between using the two systems, the new system feels somewhat smoother and sight bounce is less. Iwould say that your last state is VERY true......having a reliable setup is key!!

Tim

[021411]

So with the original Taccom buffer, once it locked back I gave it another half turn of the gas adjustment. On the new buffer, I went one full turn from where it was already set. Nothing scientific of course. Once it was set for the new buffer, I didn't change the gas switching buffers back and forth. I don't think the little adjustment of the gas going back and forth would have made much of a difference.TBH I did not notice anything dramatic or at least said to myself WOW. What a difference. I would have taken notice.

Smoother and less bounce? Couldn't tell you or rather I wasn't looking for it.

 

In short, my testing wasn't super scientific. Both buffers work just fine in my particular setup. As they say, YMMV..

 

[TRUBL]

1 hour ago, 021411 said:

So with the original Taccom buffer, once it locked back I gave it another half turn of the gas adjustment. On the new buffer, I went one full turn from where it was already set. Nothing scientific of course. Once it was set for the new buffer, I didn't change the gas switching buffers back and forth. I don't think the little adjustment of the gas going back and forth would have made much of a difference.TBH I did not notice anything dramatic or at least said to myself WOW. What a difference. I would have taken notice.

Smoother and less bounce? Couldn't tell you or rather I wasn't looking for it.

 

In short, my testing wasn't super scientific. Both buffers work just fine in my particular setup. As they say, YMMV..

 

Thank you for the feed back.....much appreciated!! Of course, well, you know......in our testing.....we go back and forth.....do the full monty, thats why I asked.......I do appreciate the response!

Tim