Nbrew875 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Went to a Level 1 Match this past weekend and there was a stage they called Bill,Pres,Steel 3 strings 1. Bill drill 2. Modified El Pres 3. Bowling rack of steel (6 popper) My question is is this a good "stage" to build a base line off of. As classifier go the Bill drill and El Prea are shot out.... But does it give a good base line to get started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 No The fundamentals: stance, grip, sight alignment, trigger control. Practice draws and reloads in dry fire more than in live fire. Seems like there are very few turn and draw stages so I would suggest more effort on draws and accuracy. The Bill drill is fast and furious. El Pres/Vice Pres are nice; draw, reload, transition, accuracy is a good but in the quest for speed do not compromise the fundamentals. Where is your movement practice? Read Lanny Bassham, Seeklander, etc. You can probably get Burkett vids cheap now Personally, I like Seeklander drills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodcan Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 (edited) I normally every 3 months run a 70 round skill assessment (I don't know what else to call it) range day. 1. Bill Drill - cold start, surrender position 7 yards. On start, draw and fire 6 rounds Goals- aim for 4 seconds at first, then 3 and eventually 2 seconds with all A Zone hits. 2. Bill Drill 2 - hands by side, 7 yards. 5 strings Draw and fire 1 round Draw and fire 2 rounds Draw and fire 3 rounds Draw and fire 4 rounds Draw and fire 5 rounds Goal: Do all of this under 10 seconds all A zone hits. 3. Wilson 5x5 Skills test - hands by side, 10 yards. 4 Strings. First mag 15 rounds total. Second mag with 10. Draw and fire 5 rounds Draw and fire 5 rounds strong hand only Draw and fire 5 rounds, gun should run dry(because first mag had 15 rounds), emergency reload, shoot 5 rounds Draw and fire 4 rounds to the body, 1 to the head Goal: Every shot not in A zone will add time. 1 second added for hits in C zone, 3 seconds for hits in D zone and 5 seconds added for misses. GM 15 Seconds or less - Master 20 seconds or less - Expert (or A class) 25 seconds or less - Sharpshooter (or D )32 seconds or less - Marksman (or C) 41 seconds or less - Novice (or D) 50 seconds or less 4. El Presidente - Surrender Position, back to targets, 3 targets 10 yards downrange with 1 yard distance between them. On start turn and draw and shoot each target 2x, reload and shoot 2x again, no makeup shots. Goal: 10 seconds total time, all A zone hits. 5. Four Aces - Hands by side, shoot 2x, reload shoot 2x. 3 strings Target at 3 yards Target at 5 Yards Target at 7 Yards Goal: String one at 2.20 seconds - String 2 at 2.30 seconds - String 3 at 2.5 seconds. All A zone hits. I keep track of all these scores in the practiscore app using Hit Factor Scoring. Edited February 23, 2020 by prodcan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 10 seconds goal time for el prez? Half that maybe. The rest of the pars are ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dranoel Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 On 2/9/2020 at 5:16 PM, pjb45 said: No The fundamentals: stance, grip, sight alignment, trigger control. Practice draws and reloads in dry fire more than in live fire. Seems like there are very few turn and draw stages so I would suggest more effort on draws and accuracy. This x100. Dry fire practice with some target pasters on the wall until you can draw to perfect sight alignment on the target automatically. Practice shifting targets back and forth with 4 or 5 pasters at random spots. You should be able to transition from one to the next while keeping your sights aligned with your eye all the way. Then draw to target 1. transition through targets, mag change and reverse order. For practice with trigger control, find some gun or toy or (as I did) a Daisy 1911 replica pellet pistol that has the absolute WORST trigger imaginable and practice squeezing that trigger while keeping the sights on target. Couple months of practicing that and keeping your aim with a race gun will be so easy you won't believe it. If you do that til it is as automatic as walking up stairs, then there is no weird position or quirky trick to a stage that can throw you. Make your practice as difficult as possible and the shots in a match will be a piece of cake. But know this: If you really want to be a great shooter it takes dedication and discipline and a LOT of practice. Dry and live fire. And there is no gadget in the world that will make up for poor basic fundamentals. That said, Bill drills, El Presidente and Mozambique drills are what I spend a lot of time at the range practicing because they incorporate draws to target, target transitions, reloads, and all those basic fundamentals with live fire recoil and noise. This is where you find out if you have the right stance and grip. If you do, your sights should return to proper alignment after every shot. If they don't, figure out where your grip is being stressed the wrong way or unevenly and correct it. And again, practice it is as automatic as turning a corner in your car. Use small targets for live fire and at longer distances than you normally would. If you can hit a 3" stick-on at 35' consistently, then hitting an 8" plate at 25' will be a piece of cake. And pay attention to what happens when you go back to dry fire after a day of live fire at the range. Are you suddenly finding yourself flinching? Jerking or slapping the trigger? be observant and see and understand what is happening and correct it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distant Thunder Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 Rob did a series of lessons with Jim Scoutten years ago when the show was called American Shooter, I believe, which took you from basic grip and stance to engaging multiple targets with reloads and movement. Rob covered a lot of ground over a few weeks in the importance of each step along the way to becoming more skilled/competitive shooter. Not just for the novice, it was a great refresher for experienced shooters as well. I only wish this series of lessons were available today on DVD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen7942 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 On 2/23/2020 at 1:18 AM, prodcan said: I normally every 3 months run a 70 round skill assessment (I don't know what else to call it) range day. 1. Bill Drill - cold start, surrender position 7 yards. On start, draw and fire 6 rounds Goals- aim for 4 seconds at first, then 3 and eventually 2 seconds with all A Zone hits. 2. Bill Drill 2 - hands by side, 7 yards. 5 strings Draw and fire 1 round Draw and fire 2 rounds Draw and fire 3 rounds Draw and fire 4 rounds Draw and fire 5 rounds Goal: Do all of this under 10 seconds all A zone hits. 3. Wilson 5x5 Skills test - hands by side, 10 yards. 4 Strings. First mag 15 rounds total. Second mag with 10. Draw and fire 5 rounds Draw and fire 5 rounds strong hand only Draw and fire 5 rounds, gun should run dry(because first mag had 15 rounds), emergency reload, shoot 5 rounds Draw and fire 4 rounds to the body, 1 to the head Goal: Every shot not in A zone will add time. 1 second added for hits in C zone, 3 seconds for hits in D zone and 5 seconds added for misses. GM 15 Seconds or less - Master 20 seconds or less - Expert (or A class) 25 seconds or less - Sharpshooter (or D )32 seconds or less - Marksman (or C) 41 seconds or less - Novice (or D) 50 seconds or less 4. El Presidente - Surrender Position, back to targets, 3 targets 10 yards downrange with 1 yard distance between them. On start turn and draw and shoot each target 2x, reload and shoot 2x again, no makeup shots. Goal: 10 seconds total time, all A zone hits. 5. Four Aces - Hands by side, shoot 2x, reload shoot 2x. 3 strings Target at 3 yards Target at 5 Yards Target at 7 Yards Goal: String one at 2.20 seconds - String 2 at 2.30 seconds - String 3 at 2.5 seconds. All A zone hits. I keep track of all these scores in the practiscore app using Hit Factor Scoring. Gonna copy this and give it a try. Great info. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrixx9 Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 On 2/23/2020 at 1:18 AM, prodcan said: I normally every 3 months run a 70 round skill assessment (I don't know what else to call it) range day. 1. Bill Drill - cold start, surrender position 7 yards. On start, draw and fire 6 rounds Goals- aim for 4 seconds at first, then 3 and eventually 2 seconds with all A Zone hits. 2. Bill Drill 2 - hands by side, 7 yards. 5 strings Draw and fire 1 round Draw and fire 2 rounds Draw and fire 3 rounds Draw and fire 4 rounds Draw and fire 5 rounds Goal: Do all of this under 10 seconds all A zone hits. 3. Wilson 5x5 Skills test - hands by side, 10 yards. 4 Strings. First mag 15 rounds total. Second mag with 10. Draw and fire 5 rounds Draw and fire 5 rounds strong hand only Draw and fire 5 rounds, gun should run dry(because first mag had 15 rounds), emergency reload, shoot 5 rounds Draw and fire 4 rounds to the body, 1 to the head Goal: Every shot not in A zone will add time. 1 second added for hits in C zone, 3 seconds for hits in D zone and 5 seconds added for misses. GM 15 Seconds or less - Master 20 seconds or less - Expert (or A class) 25 seconds or less - Sharpshooter (or D )32 seconds or less - Marksman (or C) 41 seconds or less - Novice (or D) 50 seconds or less 4. El Presidente - Surrender Position, back to targets, 3 targets 10 yards downrange with 1 yard distance between them. On start turn and draw and shoot each target 2x, reload and shoot 2x again, no makeup shots. Goal: 10 seconds total time, all A zone hits. 5. Four Aces - Hands by side, shoot 2x, reload shoot 2x. 3 strings Target at 3 yards Target at 5 Yards Target at 7 Yards Goal: String one at 2.20 seconds - String 2 at 2.30 seconds - String 3 at 2.5 seconds. All A zone hits. I keep track of all these scores in the practiscore app using Hit Factor Scoring. This sounds interesting and I intend to practice these objectives out here at the farm. Good Info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlandoech Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 On 2/9/2020 at 3:16 PM, pjb45 said: No The fundamentals: stance, grip, sight alignment, trigger control. Practice draws and reloads in dry fire more than in live fire. Seems like there are very few turn and draw stages so I would suggest more effort on draws and accuracy. The Bill drill is fast and furious. El Pres/Vice Pres are nice; draw, reload, transition, accuracy is a good but in the quest for speed do not compromise the fundamentals. Where is your movement practice? Read Lanny Bassham, Seeklander, etc. You can probably get Burkett vids cheap now Personally, I like Seeklander drills. good info, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgh Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 On 2/9/2020 at 4:16 PM, pjb45 said: You can probably get Burkett vids cheap now Funny! I took a course from him way back when. I wasn't all that impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 On 2/23/2020 at 2:18 AM, prodcan said: I normally every 3 months run a 70 round skill assessment (I don't know what else to call it) range day. 1. Bill Drill - cold start, surrender position 7 yards. On start, draw and fire 6 rounds Goals- aim for 4 seconds at first, then 3 and eventually 2 seconds with all A Zone hits. 2. Bill Drill 2 - hands by side, 7 yards. 5 strings Draw and fire 1 round Draw and fire 2 rounds Draw and fire 3 rounds Draw and fire 4 rounds Draw and fire 5 rounds Goal: Do all of this under 10 seconds all A zone hits. 3. Wilson 5x5 Skills test - hands by side, 10 yards. 4 Strings. First mag 15 rounds total. Second mag with 10. Draw and fire 5 rounds Draw and fire 5 rounds strong hand only Draw and fire 5 rounds, gun should run dry(because first mag had 15 rounds), emergency reload, shoot 5 rounds Draw and fire 4 rounds to the body, 1 to the head Goal: Every shot not in A zone will add time. 1 second added for hits in C zone, 3 seconds for hits in D zone and 5 seconds added for misses. GM 15 Seconds or less - Master 20 seconds or less - Expert (or A class) 25 seconds or less - Sharpshooter (or D )32 seconds or less - Marksman (or C) 41 seconds or less - Novice (or D) 50 seconds or less 4. El Presidente - Surrender Position, back to targets, 3 targets 10 yards downrange with 1 yard distance between them. On start turn and draw and shoot each target 2x, reload and shoot 2x again, no makeup shots. Goal: 10 seconds total time, all A zone hits. 5. Four Aces - Hands by side, shoot 2x, reload shoot 2x. 3 strings Target at 3 yards Target at 5 Yards Target at 7 Yards Goal: String one at 2.20 seconds - String 2 at 2.30 seconds - String 3 at 2.5 seconds. All A zone hits. I keep track of all these scores in the practiscore app using Hit Factor Scoring. This looks really solid to me. I used to start every practice session with one target at 15 yards and one target at 25 yards (this was back when I was shooting open, today I would probably do something like 10 yards and 15 yards). I started off with one shot draws. Then two shot draws. Then target transitions. After that I'd do several strings of SH/WH. Finally I'd do draw, engage reload engage. Do a few of those and I'd wrap with draw and engage both targets, reload, and engage both targets. It was normally a little over 100 rounds of just core basic stuff. After that I'd use my remaining 150 rounds to work on whatever it was I wanted to work on that day. Movement, swingers, popper to paper transitions, more SH/WH, maybe some longer distance stuff - 50 yards or so (this was back when 50 yard standards were more typical at a nationals). I won't say I haven't done a lot of Bill Drills or El Presidente's but for me they didn't help me measure what I was most looking for in the basics. So I did do them perhaps in that 150 round area of a practice session but rarely as a part of my standard warm ups. Tracking progress though is a really good call. Back then I had a notebook. Today that is even easier with phones and practiscore etc. Of note I do something very similar with dry fire. The primary difference is tat I start dry fire off with tiny, tiny targets. Like a piece of tape at 10 yards. I go through similar core drills and then again once done I'd start working on things that I sucked at the last match. Which last year proved to be a lot of stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now