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Tanfoglio Stock II Disconnector Issues


Jschonhaut
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Hi all. I would appreciate some insight into my most current problem with my Tanfoglio Stock II. I've been working on this thing for about a month now trying to get it to work reliably in double and single action. And every time I think I have it sorted out a new problem emerges. I'll spare you EVERY detail, but some relevant background follows.

 

After my first round of polishing the single action would not reset. I am using the stock disconnector. I filed down the material on the disconnector on it until it did (if it was a bolo it would be angle one I guess I'd call it). Got that fixed.

 

A few hundred rounds in after that a new problem emerged where a slow trigger press in single action would drop the hammer back into a double action pull. This one took a lot of research to sort out how to fix it, but I eventually found a forum where CZ and Tanfos that were running into this issue could fix it by filing the wing of the disconnector into a 45 degree angle rather than a 90 degree angle. It worked. And has been working fine for about 500 rounds at least...

 

... Until, that is, I got back from the range the other day, broke down the pistol only to do a basic cleaning. Bore snake out the barrel, gun scrubber, towel off the residued areas, lube, oil, etc - nothing major. Put it back together. And now the hammer is dropping early in double action. Which is the possible problem that can emerge from filing that disconnector wing at the 45 degree angle that I mentioned I had to do earlier.

FYI - I had the 18lb trigger plunger spring in there (paired with the 14lb as well as the 13lb PD hammer spring). I know that can cause the issue where the hammer drops early, as well. I switched back to the stock plunger spring to test and it's the same problem. Hammer drops early - like it never gets past the half cock mark.

 

Looking at the disconnector (I'll post some pictures), the 45 degree angle I remember filing into it was not as severe as it looks to be now. There are also wear marks on the underside of the disconnector which I did not put in there.

 

Good shot of the 45 degree angle

Good shot of the wear

*Couldn't post the actual images into the post - not sure why - but linked to a flickr account where I uploaded them*

 

It seems to have worn very quickly and severely after those last 500 live rounds or so - not to mention I dry fire A LOT. Excessively even. And I guess that is where I struggle with what I should do now. Pretty confident I need a new disconnector. My question is ... WHY is this happening where I will fix something, function test it, and it will be 100% working and then a few hundred live rounds (probably a few thousand dry clicks to every hundred rounds) and a new problem emerges and in fixing that problem another problem can emerge as a result of the fix?

 

Is excessive dry fire the cause of the wear? Is it that the stock disconnector is made of a material that once it is modified, its integrity is weakened and can wear faster? Basically... how can it be that I get everything working 100% and then something as insignificant as breaking the gun down to clean it can then just throw everything out of whack again?

 

I'm considering getting a bolo instead of another stock disconnector. Would that be less prone to wear? Less finicky once it is fitted? Open to any and all suggestions. Thank you.

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All right... parts list

 

Unica heavy hammer (problems occur with stock hammer, as well)

Unica one piece sear

Unica firing pin

PD firing pin spring

PD sear spring

PD trigger spring

Henning 18 plunger, but use the stock plunger as well in testing - both were working fine

 

PD hammer spring (I have 10, 12 , 13, 14 - 14 and 13 were working without issue... 12 was iffy firing factory ammo. 10 doesn't work at all with factory ammo - no surprise there. Note - I did have to cut a coil or so off the 12 and 14 to get them to fit in my gun with the Unica hammer - otherwise the hammer wouldn't go far back enough to lock for single action with the Unica hammer.

 

Tested with Unica Hammer and Stock hammer. The same issues are occurring.

 

In fitting the 45 degree angle on the disconnector, I fudged it the first time. So in testing these hammers I have to switch the disconnector between them. So it's the same disconnector I'm working with.

 

It appears that I have a Gen 1 Trigger bar.

 

Everything polished to mirror finish. Trigger bar, plunger bar, top of plunger, underside of sear cage, parts inside that rub against them all, struts on either hammer, pins for hammer, sear, the hole the hammer spring sits in, etc... 

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Is the factory disco the same as one that came with unica hammer? 

Trigger over travel screw completely out so that's not a variable to mess with?

Post a clean pic of the trigger bar face where it contacts the disco.

Bolo is made to match up with single piece sear and titan hammer. If you get bolo, it's going to be even a bigger mess trying to match it with unica parts.

Edited by Polymer
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The disco that comes with the stock hammer has a marking, 802 and then 1 a bit lower. The one that comes with the unica hammer is 802 and a 3 a bit lower. They look nearly identical. My bet is the unica comes with the extreme disconnector. 

 

The over travel screw taken all the way out. I actually only introduced the screw about a week ago. Mine was missing from factory - weird - but I had an old grub screw that fit - lucky. 

 

A few pics of the trigger bar. 

 

Trigger Bar 1

Trigger bar 2

Trigger bar 3

 

So considering the bolo not being designed for the unica better solution will probably be to get either a stock disco or an extreme disco I guess. I'm fine with that. My only concern is fitment and wear on the parts that need fitting over time. If I put a new disconnector in and I have to fit it in order for the timing of the trigger to work right should I dry fire much more sparingly for example, or expect that I am going to have to fit a new disconnector every few thousand rounds... or is there a better way?

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That's what I'm worried about - with that soft metal underneath I'm thinking that that angle I put in the disconnector created an issue where the part became weak and wore down the surfaces I fitted. I guess it doesn't matter if it's the stock disconnector or the extreme one either. I had read the hammer hooks and whatnot were surface hardened like that but wasn't aware the disconnector was too. 

 

In any case my understanding is that the BOLO would not have that same issue as it is hard metal throughout. Correct? 

 

And I get that the bolo wasn't intended for the unica parts but fitting the disconnector to fix my issues wasn't a piece of cake either.  Once fitted I'm thinking the bolo would not have the same issue of wear on the fitted surfaces. 

 

Looking through the forum people gave managed to use the bolo with the unica parts. So it's feasible. A headache probably, but so was fitting the stock disconnector. 

 

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Disco should last you easily through tons of dry fire and tens of thousands of rounds. Most tanfo parts are surface hardened. There should have been zero fitting needed using the stock disco. I'm really curious why after first round of polishing trigger would not reset in single action. With all the slop/pretravel in SA using factory disco, reset should never be an issue. Bolo is fully hardened. If I were you, I would just buy titan hammer and sear Lol. The tolerances of these guns and unica hammer have been nightmare to get right

Edited by Polymer
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Your guess is as good as mine with why the trigger wouldn't reset. Single action would drop. I'd rack the slide and the trigger would just hang back not click back into place. No overtravel screw at the time. If memory serves I was using the stock hammer at the time. 14lb hammer spring. I don't remember what else was in there at the time. Probably the stock plunger spring, reduced power sear and trigger. It was a few weeks ago. That wasn't a terrible fix tho. Few minutes with a file and it was working. 

 

My gun is quirkier than most I believe. Nothing seems to work quite the way it was supposed to. 

 

Take the safety for example. The pin in the ambi safety is supposed to pop out with a 16th punch. Nope. Ended up having to dremel it off after an allen key I was using got stuck in there. The pin was not only way smaller than a 16th punch but curved and warped and not a uniform thickness throughout.

 

Been a bit of a nightmare honestly. This whole thing. 

 

It may come down to replacing the sear and the hammer. Haven't ruled that out with the Titan hammer yet. I'm sure the unica sear and titan won't play nice either. 

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9 hours ago, Jschonhaut said:

 

 

It may come down to replacing the sear and the hammer. Haven't ruled that out with the Titan hammer yet. I'm sure the unica sear and titan won't play nice either. 

The unica sear is a completely different profile from the stock/extreme sear and was intended to be used with all unica parts (hammer and flat safety) Been meaning to contact tanfo as the unica sear seems to be losing its edge faster than the stock/extreme sears leading to the hammer dropping into a semi-DA pull on SA. NOT hammer follow or half-cock.

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Send it to patriot defense if you feel so. It sucks because you already bought all the unica parts but I would really think about titan hammer, sear, bolo. They have been tested and are the ideal setup. There haven't been enough history/experience with unica parts. From another recent thread, getting gun to run with unica parts have been really all over the place. Once you get gun to run, you'll be thrilled. I've been in the same situation as you because tanfo quality control is horrible.  

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7 hours ago, haiedras said:

Been meaning to contact tanfo as the unica sear seems to be losing its edge faster than the stock/extreme sears leading to the hammer dropping into a semi-DA pull on SA. NOT hammer follow or half-cock.

That sounds a lot like one of the problems I was running into where on a slow trigger pull on single action the hammer would fall back into a double action pull. That's why I filed the 45 degree angle into my disco wing. 

 

I'm going to link a few images of my sear. Do any of these images show the sear losing the edge you're talking about? 

 

Sear 1

Sear 2

Sear 3

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Usually I'd notice premature wear on the sear tail itself that contacts the hammer hooks. The tail on the unica sear is...maybe HALF the size of the stock/extreme tail, so when that edge goes, that's where the hammer would drop into a DA pull from SA. The angle on the disco wing is probably what's causing the early drop in DA. 

15 hours ago, Jschonhaut said:

That sounds a lot like one of the problems I was running into where on a slow trigger pull on single action the hammer would fall back into a double action pull. That's why I filed the 45 degree angle into my disco wing. 

 

I'm going to link a few images of my sear. Do any of these images show the sear losing the edge you're talking about? 

 

Sear 1

Sear 2

Sear 3

 

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I have 6 Tanfoglios and have tried the Unica hammer and honestly found it to be inferior to both the stock and Titan hammers. 

 

I have two S2s and the combo I found works best is the Titan Hammer, one piece sear and Bolo.

In my Limited Custom 40SW I fitted the EGW hammer and  sear from Henning. It does require more work to fit.

I found the Bolo is not worth the fitting effort if one is using the stock hammer. Stick with the stock disco.

 

The only issue I have had with dropping into DA from SA (actually half/mid hammer position) was trying to use Bolo with stock hammer. This only happened during fast splits, -.20. Solution was to return to stock disco or replace with titan hammer.

 

Overall the problem lies when we mix and match parts that were not designed to work together. 

 

As far as the wear goes, it shouldn't be what you are picturing. Something isn't right. 

 

BTW my primary S2 has over 20K+ through it and shows very little wear with the Titan/Bolo set up and all my others have thousands of rounds through them, again very little  wear. 

Edited by HesedTech
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Well... I've got an extreme disco, a bolo, and a new unica sear on order. I'm going to try the disco with the stock hammer first. I'll just return the bolo and sear if it's working all right and use the stock hammer. 

 

If I end up using the unica hammer I need the new sear because I fitted the sear to the safety with the stock hammer originally and the unica doesn't work quite right with the safety anymore (rookie mistake).

 

I'm tempted to try the bolo with the unica but... I'll see if it works with the stock disco first. Go from there. 

 

I'll report back soon as it arrives and I try that disco. 

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Had to do over again... hindsight is always 20/20. I will eventually try the titan I'm sure. But that'll be another $200 investment between the hammer the sear and the bolo... plus shipping. Rather space that expense out a bit if I can. But I'm one of those that likes to tinker so it'll be a matter of time before I try it I'm sure. 

 

I bought the unica stuff because it was supposed to be a drop in part that required little to no fitting from what I had initially read. Well, we all know how that turned out...

 

When i had the unica working I was really happy with it. Take the 18lb plunger spring for example. When I was using that with the stock hammer I was getting light strikes. But switched to the unica and I was even able to go down from a 14 to a 13 hammer spring and it was working great with the 18 lb plunger. And the reset is only 1 or 2 millimeters. So the hammer does make a difference.

 

But at this point I'm just looking to get my gun working as cheaply as possible. I'm hoping I can just use the new disconnector with the stock hammer. And if that works all right I may try it with the unica as well. But I'm worried I'm going to put it in there and one of my old problems will resurface - either the single action won't reset or the hammer will drop into a double action pull or... something else will happen. 

 

That's the only reason I'd try using the bolo with the unica. If the stock disco doesn't work right with either hammer then I'm out $20 for the disco and I've got to roll the dice on fitting the bolo to the unica. 

 

And if that doesn't work...

 

Well...

 

Titan and new sear?... send it to PD?... I don't know. Hopefully it doesn't come to that. 

 

 

 

 

 

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All right so... update

 

Dropped in the new extreme disconnector. It works ALMOST perfectly. 

 

With the stock hammer I've got full functionality in double action and drum half cock. The single action breaks and resets. However on a SUPER slow single action pull (so slow I have to use a second finger to support it) I am getting a drop back into a double action pull. Will this ever occur in actual use? No probably not. So I think I can overlook it as long as continued use does not exacerbate the problem. As long as it doesn't get more severe than that I'm all right. 

 

With the unica hammer the single action drops back into double on almost every pull. So think I'm retiring that hammer for the time being. 

 

A user, haiedras, pointed out a few posts earlier that the unica sear can wear prematurely on the tail and can cause this to happen. Upon further inspection I believe that is what is happening as I can see bare metal on the underside of the sear tail. So... unica sear is what is causing this issue I believe. 

 

So what now?

 

I am going to keep using the stock hammer with the unica sear as-is for the time being. I'll be returning the new unica sear and bolo unused unopened. Eventually I expect the issue with the unica sear to worsen so the drop from single to double action becomes more frequent even with the stock hammer. At that point I'll likely get myself an extreme sear instead. And from there I'll eventually get the titan hammer and bolo to complement it. 

 

Thanks for all your help everyone.

 

Appreciate the support and advice. 

 

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The unica sear is not made for the stock hammer.

 

Go back to the stock sear, single not two piece, and use that one. 
 

Here’s what works in the S2.

 

Stock sear, disco, hammer, 15.5 lb PD hammer spring and polish per what you’ve read here BEF. DA should be near 6.5 and SA 2.5 with zero problems with hammer function. 
 

Extreme one piece sear, Bolo disco, Titan hammer, lightened trigger return and sear springs, 15.5 PD hammer spring, polish job and you are ready to rock and roll. The Bolo requires minor fitting, which you’ll find here on BEF.  Results; less than 6 DA, about 2.5 SA a smoother DA pull and short reset. 
 

These are proven to work in the S2. 
 

Of course I learned it by experimenting, reading BEF and that’s part of the fun and frustration of the sport/ hobby.

 

Enjoy

 

BTW I forgot to mention, for reliability I always use the extended firing pin (I like PD better than Henning, but they both are better than stock) and lighten FP spring. 

Edited by HesedTech
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1 hour ago, HesedTech said:

The unica sear is not made for the stock hammer.

 

Go back to the stock sear, single not two piece, and use that one. 

 

Yeah I would... but... mine came with the 2 piece sear originally. So no one piece sear to revert back to unfortunately. Eventually I'll get the extreme sear when the unica sear craps out or next round of parts and pieces... whatever comes first.

 

The rest is just experimenting - like you said. 

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