What is *The* Area Match to shoot?

[motosapiens]

Just now, waktasz said:

I thought the complaining was to do with the stupid props on the stages that have nothing to do with shooting, see also: pool noodles, giant truck tires.

 

I have no opinion on the noodles. The giant truck tries seem practical to me, in that they generally test your ability to navigate physical obstacles while shooting at targets. That stage also had many different options as to which shooting areas (truck tires) to use, and which to skip. Great fun, i thought. I would probably shoot it differently next time.

 

I know that many shooters complain about *anything* other than standing and shooting. They don't like SHO/WHO, they don't like props, they don't like having to move more than 5 yards, they don't like low ports, they don't like going prone, they don't like 30 yard targets, and they always claim that stuff has 'nothing to do with shooting'. I think I have an idea of why they feel that way, but I personally enjoy those things.

[waktasz]

I'm a prone hater because it always seems there is a 100% chance it's going to rain at least part of the match and someone is going to have to start on that stage and shoot the rest of the day covered in mud. 

[motosapiens]

i knew we could find common ground. Prone in the mud is lame. Prone in the dust and rocks with no carpet is kinda lame too, now that I think about it.

[CHA-LEE]

Every Area match has its positives and negatives as well as its unique flavor of stages and how its run (Just like any other major match). It would be really hard to consider one Area match the "Best" because all of the clubs hosting an Area match bust their asses to make their match the best it can be. For one Area match to be significantly better than the others it would mean that all the others are doing something significantly wrong, which isn't the case. Most competitors Area match preferences are going to be directly correlated with their location. Most competitors will travel a few states away from home to attend a major match. Very few are willing to fly across the country to attend a major. There are even fewer that attend all of the area matches. So finding an unbiased review of ALL the area matches is going to be very difficult to find.

 

Basically put, its pretty rare that you are going to have a bad experience when attending any Area match. There are a few that may have a stage flavor that you don't prefer. For example, a bunch of stages with circus props that have nothing to do with testing practical shooting skills. But that information is relatively easy to find.

[Darqusoull13]

The Area 4 matches I shot at Triple C in Cresson, USSA in Tulsa or Old Ft. Gun Club in Van Buren have all been fantastic matches. For us the match rotates between venues so it has more to do with the venue and match crew than the match itself whether you will enjoy it or not. 

In 2020 Area 4 will be hosted by Old Ft. Gun Club again and I have it on my schedule. 
 

[Hi-Power Jack]

For some unexplained reason, the Area shoot in Virginia is either

the end of August or the beginning of September ???

 

The two matches I've shot there were both fantastic and well run,

but the weather was HUMID.

 

I melted there one year for two days, and a week or two weeks

later went to the Nat'ls in Vegas where the RO's were dropping

like flies due to the intense heat.   We shooters, of course, were

in the shade 95% of the time, hydrating.

 

The shoot in VA was Much Worse to endure the weather than

the heat in NV.   Terribly oppressive humidity.

 

I'd avoid it unless they change the date to late Sept/early Oct.

[waktasz]

Area 8 has been in August for the last bunch of years. Late Sept/Early Oct is Nationals times

 

[Racinready300ex]

3 hours ago, waktasz said:

I thought the complaining was to do with the stupid props on the stages that have nothing to do with shooting, see also: pool noodles, giant truck tires.

 

This is what I hear.

[Agent #1911]

On 12/10/2019 at 6:35 PM, Schutzenmeister said:

 

Awww ... If you think Iowa is miserable, avoid North Dakota for the next several months!

 

 

freezins da reezin. 

 

hey you have the same name thats on my bullet box! 

[Thomas H]

On 12/12/2019 at 11:19 AM, waktasz said:

I thought the complaining was to do with the stupid props on the stages that have nothing to do with shooting, see also: pool noodles, giant truck tires.

 

Like I said, some people have real troubles with anything that forces them to think while shooting, no matter how little.

 

For example, I thought the pool noodle stage was easy---literally ignore the pool noodles, because they didn't mean anything and didn't do anything, OTHER than be a visual distraction.  on't let them distract you, and shoot like normal.  Other people let all the movement of the noodles get into their heads, and it was a problem for them. 

 

Similar the truck tires defining the shooting areas---simply the fact of having to move up and down a little (to get into the shooting area, then back out) was enough to make some people emotionally lose it.  And yet....wasn't any harder than moving in and out of any other shooting areas I've done at other majors.  Yet still, it is enough different in look and feel to make people think more, and things like that mess with some people.

 

Calling those "stupid props" is interesting to me, because most of the complaints I've heard all really boil down to "it made it hard for me to concentrate on shooting, and I don't like that" which is exactly why they are there---it tests how much direct cognition people need for shooting.  I happen to think that being able to shooting quickly and accurately while handling minor things like that is a good test of shooting skills (how else do you test for the level of unconscious competence?) but some people can't stand it when anything messes with their focus.

 

Different people like different things (and different challenges) and that's all good.  It is unfortunate that some people equate "I didn't enjoy this" with "this is badly done, and everyone should hate it" though.

 

 

[MNshooter]

For area matches, I’ve done Area 3 once and Area 4 twice (AR and TX). I wouldn’t hesitate to do either again.

I’d suggest looking at some section matches, too. You can shoot them in one day, they are usually cheap, and there are several good ones near your location. I particularly enjoy Iowa Section each year. Minnesota and Wisconsin are nice matches, too.

[MikeBurgess]

4 hours ago, Thomas H said:

 

Like I said, some people have real troubles with anything that forces them to think while shooting, no matter how little.

 

For example, I thought the pool noodle stage was easy---literally ignore the pool noodles, because they didn't mean anything and didn't do anything, OTHER than be a visual distraction.  on't let them distract you, and shoot like normal.  Other people let all the movement of the noodles get into their heads, and it was a problem for them. 

 

Similar the truck tires defining the shooting areas---simply the fact of having to move up and down a little (to get into the shooting area, then back out) was enough to make some people emotionally lose it.  And yet....wasn't any harder than moving in and out of any other shooting areas I've done at other majors.  Yet still, it is enough different in look and feel to make people think more, and things like that mess with some people.

 

Calling those "stupid props" is interesting to me, because most of the complaints I've heard all really boil down to "it made it hard for me to concentrate on shooting, and I don't like that" which is exactly why they are there---it tests how much direct cognition people need for shooting.  I happen to think that being able to shooting quickly and accurately while handling minor things like that is a good test of shooting skills (how else do you test for the level of unconscious competence?) but some people can't stand it when anything messes with their focus.

 

Different people like different things (and different challenges) and that's all good.  It is unfortunate that some people equate "I didn't enjoy this" with "this is badly done, and everyone should hate it" though.

 

 

I think the issues many had with the two props mentioned are not what you think.

 

The pool noodles complaints I saw were mostly due to a real or perceived safety issue, where the noodles interfered with the RO being able to see the competitor and the competitor having noodles bouncing off their gun while moving reloading and shooting, yes nobody got shot, but for many it seemed like a bad idea to try in the first place.

 

The tires complaint was because the "shooting area" portion of the tires was not defined in a way that agreed with the rule book, yes it was easy to explain and understand but for many shooters, the fact that the explanation did not match the rules is a huge problem regardless of anything else.

 

 

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, MikeBurgess said:

The tires complaint was because the "shooting area" portion of the tires was not defined in a way that agreed with the rule book, yes it was easy to explain and understand but for many shooters, the fact that the explanation did not match the rules is a huge problem regardless of anything else.

 

 

 

i think the tires complaint was because people just like to whine. Everyone seems ok with raised planks as a shooting area, and those have a similar problem of not really matching the wording of the rules exactly regarding faultlines. 

[MikeBurgess]

36 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

i think the tires complaint was because people just like to whine. Everyone seems ok with raised planks as a shooting area, and those have a similar problem of not really matching the wording of the rules exactly regarding faultlines. 

Agreed, I actually submitted some revised wording for consideration, I'm not holding my breath

[Schutzenmeister]

11 hours ago, Agent #1911 said:

 

hey you have the same name thats on my bullet box! 

 

 

Damn ... How'd they make it all the way to Florida?

[Hi-Power Jack]

12 hours ago, Schutzenmeister said:

 

Damn ... How'd they make it all the way to Florida?

 

They were smart enough to get out of the ND weather.      

[Schutzenmeister]

1 hour ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

They were smart enough to get out of the ND weather.      

 

I hear ya … Headed for NOLA soon for a few days of (relative) warmth, southern cooking, and jazz!

[Thomas H]

On 12/16/2019 at 3:23 PM, MikeBurgess said:

I think the issues many had with the two props mentioned are not what you think.

 

The pool noodles complaints I saw were mostly due to a real or perceived safety issue, where the noodles interfered with the RO being able to see the competitor and the competitor having noodles bouncing off their gun while moving reloading and shooting, yes nobody got shot, but for many it seemed like a bad idea to try in the first place.

 

The tires complaint was because the "shooting area" portion of the tires was not defined in a way that agreed with the rule book, yes it was easy to explain and understand but for many shooters, the fact that the explanation did not match the rules is a huge problem regardless of anything else.

 

 

 

For the pool noodles bouncing off the gun---I just don't really see the issues. They were pool noodles, not solid/heavy sticks or anything.  They didn't really impact the gun, other than being in the way while trying to shoot.  (Ok, for PCC if you just swept the entire thing fully side-to-side, you got quite a few trapped on the transition, and had to move around that.)  Regarding staff seeing anything---well, there was a reason the motion was only forward, with side-to-side transitions.  That way the staff only needed to watch the hands and the gun and movement in one direction, and that just wasn't that difficult to do.  (Or at least, not really any more difficult than normal, other than the RO had to be a little more behind the shooter than normal, as opposed to off to the side.  That's a function of the hallway, though, not the noodles.)  There wasn't anything about the noodles that would cause people to pop off shots in unsafe directions any more than normal, OTHER than the noodles were a distraction.  It wasn't like they were getting caught in the gun, or were heavy enough to move the gun in the middle of a reload or anything.  In my opinion (so ignore it if people want) there was a lot of complaining about things where said "things" weren't the actual reason, but the competitor didn't want to say "the noodles really distracted me so I shot like crap."

 

For the tire part---I agree that the definition didn't match, and that was an issue.  It just isn't the issue that many people kept SAYING was the problem.  And calling the use of tractor tires "circus props" is pretty ridiculous (note:  this comment is based on other posts elsewhere, not anything I'm replying to right now) given all of the OTHER things major matches have made people shoot from. 

 

Like I said----different people enjoy different things.  Some people like matches where all the stages feel like elongated classifer and standards stages.  Others like match themes and props (Double Tap comes to mind here).  Others like really athletically-based matches.  Some folks prefer less movement and no prone ever.  Different things for different people.   Mostly, I just wish people would instead just say "that's not for me" as opposed to "that's horrible and stupid, no one should shoot it."

 

[ima45dv8]

Pictures of the tires on the stage, please? 

It's hard for bystanders to follow along....

[rustychev]

39 minutes ago, ima45dv8 said:

Pictures of the tires on the stage, please? 

It's hard for bystanders too follow along....

Starts at about 1:01

Area 3 Max Michel

[Barcode1337]

Watching some videos of the past 3 A3 matches, looks to me like it would be *the* match to go to. I dig the non-standard props/obstacles.

[ima45dv8]

1 hour ago, rustychev said:

Starts at about 1:01

Area 3 Max Michel

Max ain't normal. He's a freak.

Thanks for the link.  

I don't see that as an unreasonable challenge. I wish I'd had the same obstacle to address, (would not have done it so well),  but I wasn't there. 

Shoot, and move on.

[Nick_shoots_fast]

Area 8. If they went to a 2 day format it would turn a great match into a fantastic match!  It’s moved to a different location this year so we will have to see about that but in years past, it’s been awesome! 
 

Along with a different location, it’s a different staff and area director. I believe it’s still going to be awesome tho. 

[lcs]

13 hours ago, ima45dv8 said:

Max ain't normal. He's a freak.

Thanks for the link.  

I don't see that as an unreasonable challenge. I wish I'd had the same obstacle to address, (would not have done it so well),  but I wasn't there. 

Shoot, and move on.

Rule Book  1.1.2 Quality – The value of a USPSA match is determined by the quality of the challenge presented in the course design. Courses of fire must be designed primarily to test a competitor’s USPSA shooting skills, not their physical abilities.

 

IMO--That stage with the tires (6 tires) is why people would complain and be justifed.  Not only did you have to JUMP in and out of tires, you had a pretty good run between tires.  No, I am not an advocate of "stand and shoot" either.  I hate boring stages, but this stage definitely favors the young and fit.  I've shot and worked many Area matches and those kinds of stages are biased.  One tire not so bad,  having to run (I mean run) a good distance between shooting locations; rewards the young and fit shooter, not the "average" USPSA shooter.   This stage did not test your ability to solve a shooting situation, how to minimize movement, or shoot on the move.

[motosapiens]

23 minutes ago, lcs said:

Rule Book  1.1.2 Quality – The value of a USPSA match is determined by the quality of the challenge presented in the course design. Courses of fire must be designed primarily to test a competitor’s USPSA shooting skills, not their physical abilities.

 

IMO--That stage with the tires (6 tires) is why people would complain and be justifed.  Not only did you have to JUMP in and out of tires, you had a pretty good run between tires.  No, I am not an advocate of "stand and shoot" either.  I hate boring stages, but this stage definitely favors the young and fit.  I've shot and worked many Area matches and those kinds of stages are biased.  One tire not so bad,  having to run (I mean run) a good distance between shooting locations; rewards the young and fit shooter, not the "average" USPSA shooter.   This stage did not test your ability to solve a shooting situation, how to minimize movement, or shoot on the move.

the same people did well on that stage as did well on stand and shoot stages.

 

being fat and lazy is NOT a practical self-defense skill.