parabat Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Hi all, I was wondering what the most common used grip pressure is.. I read brian's book and it made perfect sense, i can rely most of it right back to me, the only thing that "confuses" me is his point about grip pressure, brian talks about have the gun fairly loose. Yet ben stoeger uses a death grip with his support hand, now when i use the "death grip" with my support hand it really works wonders for me. If i grip the gun a bit looser with my support hand i immidiatly see my groups getting bigger when shooting a bill drill for example. now i know that i should use what works for me, but i was just wondering, since almost everything in brians book makes sense to me,and is really well thought out and working for me. Is it because stuff has evolved a bit? That the support hand death grip is a common used thing nowadays? Or am i able to get the same results by loosing up a bit and just training with it? My gun really seems to rise way higher and shots open up with brians technique, yet with a death/crush grip if i really focus on gripping the gun hard my shots are almost alway right next to each other.. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 It's been a while since I've read Brian's book, but wasn't he talking about holding the gun neutrally? Holding it loosely isn't what I took away from his discussion.Use the search function, this very thing has been discussed many times.Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryf Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 One of my instructors split it up as 70 percent weak, 30 percent strong. When I tightened up my weak hand the dot on my open gun was much more trackable. It went straight up and back down to poi as opposed to wiggling all over the place before settling back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvDog Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 Use what works for you. I find that when I death grip anything my results go down. i wouldn’t describe my preference as a loose grip, but I try to remind myself to relax my grip, because I tend to tense up and everything goes to crap then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bench Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 Death grip to the point of shaking is what throws aim off for me. Hard grip just this side of shaking is my sweet spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 I prefer about 60-40...40% with strong hand, 60% with weak. Your fingers of your weak hand should be squeezing the fingers of your strong hand, while the heel of the thumb of the weak hand should be pressing into the grip, thumbs parallel to the barrel, on top of each other, beside the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted December 14, 2019 Share Posted December 14, 2019 Brian talks about a relaxed grip, not a loose grip. Also he says hold it like you would a hammer, personally I grip a hammer pretty tight. This caused me some confusion for a while too until I understood the difference between tense and relaxed is totally different from tight and loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdp88 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 I grip as hard as possible, without shaking, with my support hand and with my dominant hand i grip as hard as i can while keeping my index finger loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) Things have changed over the years. Shooters have gotten faster and better. Techniques have undergone two decades of refinement and experimentation since Brian was active. Guys like Vogel and @CHA-LEE are out there gripping the gun tight as hell, and nowdays GMs are shooting faster and more accurately than anyone has in history. Edited December 18, 2019 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 As you might know, Brian has big hands and probably significantly stronger than average. Also, Bob Vogel and Charlie Perez are gifted (and/or developed) in the hand size-strength area. So what feels like a comfortable grip for them, might require a lot more effort for other people to imitate. Even just long fingers with average strength is an advantage, since leverage is in that person's favor. The ability to clamp down hard on the gun is most definitely advantageous, no one really disputes that. I personally do better when I consistently grip the gun hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Brian just posted good article on his blog about the neutral grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nbrew875 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 The best way grip has been expanded to me is trap the upper half of the grip and put pressure like your trying to spead apart a horseshoe. The slide is what is causing recoil if to can mitigate the movement on the upper half of the frame you can get on target faster for follow up shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Brian just posted good article on his blog about the neutral grip. https://brianenos.com/the-neutral-grip/Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bimmer1980 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Locked wrists is as important. Ben Stoeger said every male human (not injured) is able to grip hard enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
124gr9mm Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 6 hours ago, PatJones said: https://brianenos.com/the-neutral-grip/ Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Thanks for linking that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 I discuss Grip extensively in my book Path of Focused Effort......... https://bigpandaperformance.com/store-1/path-of-focused-effort-a-learning-guide-for-practical-shooting-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessiveshooter Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 On 12/7/2019 at 5:50 AM, parabat said: My gun really seems to rise way higher and shots open up with brians technique, yet with a death/crush grip if i really focus on gripping the gun hard my shots are almost alway right next to each other.. Any thoughts? Forget the "neutral" grip. You are trying to control and limit a violent movement. The only way to do that is with force, and the more force the better the control. It's a super simple concept. And definitely check out CHALEE's book, I wish I had a book like that when I first started. It would have saved me years of trying to figure certain things out slowly on my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 On 12/20/2019 at 6:40 PM, CHA-LEE said: I discuss Grip extensively in my book Path of Focused Effort......... https://bigpandaperformance.com/store-1/path-of-focused-effort-a-learning-guide-for-practical-shooting-1 The Big Panda states that the very best shooters have very powerful grips - both hands. Using a measuring device (not estimating based on guesses), he finds that 100 LBS of pressure, with each hand, is The Best way to go. Anything less, and you are not going to get the best results. No where what I've been doing, but I'm going to try to get as close as possible in 2020 - makes a Lot of Sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bench Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 22 minutes ago, obsessiveshooter said: Forget the "neutral" grip. You are trying to control and limit a violent movement. The only way to do that is with force, and the more force the better the control. It's a super simple concept. And definitely check out CHALEE's book, I wish I had a book like that when I first started. It would have saved me years of trying to figure certain things out slowly on my own. One of the big take-aways from Big Panda's video on this subject is to measure grip on your strong hand with the trigger finger extended out straight. I don't have a dynamometer to measure grip strength but with the grip strength exerciser that I use I always grip it with my trigger finger extended and occasionally will pause to make sure I can "pull the trigger" without altering the grip portion in that hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsessiveshooter Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 I'm sorry, I should step back from what I just wrote. I went back and re-read what Brian had to say and, in fact, what he is saying and what CHALEE is saying are not at odds at all. Brian says about the grip he advocates, "It is as hard as I can grip without awakening the death of tension." Another way of saying, "Absolutely crush the pistol while still making sure your trigger finger works". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hperea Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 I can not follow the 60-40 or 70-30 rule. I just keep a firm grip with my supporting hand. Lately, I have noticed that I tend to loose grip after a few shots so I remind myself of it and grip harder.....practice will make it almost perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabasco Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 The do what feels right for you is the hardest subjective part, but probably the best advice. We all have different size hands, different grip strengths, etc. But I do think we are getting more intricate on what influences how we shoot. Hwansik Kim really broke down so many aspects of grip and recoil management in the lessons he has been sharing. The interesting part I think is this is management and not control. When people try control recoil too much, it leads to wider groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstone45 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 On 12/22/2019 at 3:00 PM, Hi-Power Jack said: The Big Panda states that the very best shooters have very powerful grips - both hands. Using a measuring device (not estimating based on guesses), he finds that 100 LBS of pressure, with each hand, is The Best way to go. Anything less, and you are not going to get the best results. No where what I've been doing, but I'm going to try to get as close as possible in 2020 - makes a Lot of Sense to me. So 100lbs corresponds to the 'Trainer' model of the Captains of Crush grippers, so it's pretty reassuring to hear that it's not a ridiculous amount of squeezing force required Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 7 hours ago, Blackstone45 said: So 100lbs corresponds to the 'Trainer' model of the Captains of Crush grippers, so it's pretty reassuring to hear that it's not a ridiculous amount of squeezing force required Keep in mind that 100lbs of gripping force per hand needs to be done with the same fingers and wrist angles as when you shoot. You can use a COC gripper to test this as you described but the most common mistake that people make is that they grip it with all of their fingers at a straight wrist angle which is NOT how we grip the gun while shooting. For example, on the strong hand your trigger finger needs to be taken out of the equation. On the support hand your wrist needs to be canted foreword as if you were gripping the gun. NOT canting your wrist or using your trigger finger usually adds about 20lbs of additional gripping force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyScuba Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 For those like me who decide to train their grip strength and dryfire you'll need Chad Reilly's shooters elbow "fix" https://spinalflowyoga.com/shooters-elbow/ I've adapted some of his exercises as I'm a regular lifter. I was getting lazy last year and not training certain forearms muscles commended with lot of dryfire/shooting was giving me crazy left forearm tendonitis. It's still there somewhat but I'm going to have to lower the amount of forearm training once I get back into regular dryfire and range time. I have small wrists and hands so I need all the help I can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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