Muzzle Flash cause and effect?

[DukeSoprano]

May seem like a stupid question but is there a such thing as too much muzzle flash and do you tune your guns/loads to reduce it or does it mean the comp is working as designed?

 

I love OLD Space guns in 38 Super and have 3, a Jim Boland, Glades Gun Works and one that was to have been build by Dave Dawson (although Dave doesn't think so) no biggie.

 

My favorite 38 super load is a 125 grain Hornady HAP .356 dia. and 5.4 grains of Winchester 231. I use this in my 1911s and compete unprofessionally with my Boland.

 

I thought about using the (Dawson or non Dawson gun), it is the only of the 3 with popple holes and it literally shoots 1 foot flames from the comp/holes. But the dang thing is the most accurate gun I have ever shot.

 

Should I consider a different powder? Bullet?

 

Thanks in advance, Jeffrey

 

Top= Boland

Middle= Dawson

Bottom + Glades Gun Works

 

 

[beechnutbob]

Just finished this gun, test firing, cloudy day never saw any flame, yellow-orange while shooting it, neither did the person using the camera.   This is from the video which was done in slow-mo and the loaded into ShotCoach and the ran at 1/10 speed.   Was only able to then catch it in one frame of the 1/10 speed of shot coach.     Don’t think there would be a problem unless it was almost dark.

[Guy Neill]

Different powders will display different degrees of flash.  Some powders have additives to reduce flash - particularly military powders.

 

The flash will also vary in color, as well as intensity.

 

Muzzle flash is mostly potentially a problem in the dark.

[echotango]

231 powder? 

[DukeSoprano]

yes

[Hi-Power Jack]

If you're loading this to 9mm Major (PF 165 +), you are

using the wrong powder …   as echotango is suggesting.

 

Are you loading 9mm Minor (PF 125 +) ?

[zzt]

Bullet choice is fine.  Powder is a mistake.  It is the max load listed by Hodgdon in their non +P load data, so it is safe.  However, 231 is an ancient powder and there are better choices in that burn range if you want to stay minor, and lots of slower powder if you want to make major.

 

Comps and poppels rob the bullet of velocity, because they redirect gas away from the bullet.  So you have to use a lot of a slow burning powder to make major.  If you are happy competing in Open minor, use published data for CFE Pistol, AutoComp or Silhouette.  All are slower than 231 and flash less.  All make more gas, so the gun will shoot flatter and softer than with your load.

[DukeSoprano]

It is just a 38 super minor load that I use in the Boland gun. The Boland was apparently built as a steel challenge gun as the slide has just about everything machined out of it as could be.


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[zzt]

57 minutes ago, DukeSoprano said:

It is just a 38 super minor load that I use in the Boland gun. The Boland was apparently built as a steel challenge gun as the slide has just about everything machined out of it as could be.


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Alliant Sport Pistol and Solo 1000 would be better, less flashy choices than 231.  They are around the  same burn rate.  If you can tolerate more noise, the other three I mentioned will be softer shooting.

[07yzryder]

1 hour ago, zzt said:

Bullet choice is fine.  Powder is a mistake.  It is the max load listed by Hodgdon in their non +P load data, so it is safe.  However, 231 is an ancient powder and there are better choices in that burn range if you want to stay minor, and lots of slower powder if you want to make major.

 

Comps and poppels rob the bullet of velocity, because they redirect gas away from the bullet.  So you have to use a lot of a slow burning powder to make major.  If you are happy competing in Open minor, use published data for CFE Pistol, AutoComp or Silhouette.  All are slower than 231 and flash less.  All make more gas, so the gun will shoot flatter and softer than with your load.

 

 

Do comps? I know poppels will because you add holes in the barrel where the pressure is still building. The comp the bullet has left the barrel so I would think (havent tested it at all) that the comp would not effect velocity.

[zzt]

15 minutes ago, 07yzryder said:

 

 

Do comps? I know poppels will because you add holes in the barrel where the pressure is still building. The comp the bullet has left the barrel so I would think (havent tested it at all) that the comp would not effect velocity.

 

The comp very definitely affects velocity.  Believe it or not, the gas exiting the muzzle still pushes the bullet forward.  Strip that gas away, which is what the comp does, and you lower velocity.  I've proven that to my satisfaction, but I'm going to do an even better test.  I'm planning on adding an unported, uncompensated barrel to one of my Open guns so I can shoot poly coated bullets at one club.  I'll chrono my Open minor load out of the regular barrel and the comp'd barrel as see how much difference I get.

[MikeBurgess]

2 minutes ago, zzt said:

 

The comp very definitely affects velocity.  Believe it or not, the gas exiting the muzzle still pushes the bullet forward.  Strip that gas away, which is what the comp does, and you lower velocity.  I've proven that to my satisfaction, but I'm going to do an even better test.  I'm planning on adding an unported, uncompensated barrel to one of my Open guns so I can shoot poly coated bullets at one club.  I'll chrono my Open minor load out of the regular barrel and the comp'd barrel as see how much difference I get.

The only way you can test you theory is to chrono a batch of ammo out of a single barrel with and without the comp, there is too much difference between barrels to make any conclusions based on different barrels (even same make and model)

 

 

[MikeBurgess]

On a slight tangent, comps make a pretty good flash suppressor, I had a 357Sig open gun I loaded with 10.5g of  Blue Dot out of the open gun there was no flash (actually shot it at a night match and was disappointed in it only making a small orange flame in the comp) but shoot that same ammo out a a non compensated gun and I got basketball sized fire balls bright enough to obscure the target during the day