Akai Open - Stroked and Tungsten vs non

[falconpilot]

I'm currently looking pretty hard at a Akai Open in 9 Major base on my past experience with Akai guns. I had a Katana several years back and absolutely loved it - biggest mistake I eve made selling it - Looking at the newer Tungsten middy stroked pistols - for those of you that have run both, non tungsten verse tungsten, can you give me your thoughts...$8000 is a lot of money to spend a any gun and being that I've never shoot a Tungsten barrel pistol before, trying to get all the feedback I can.

 

Thanks

 

 

[TRPOperator]

I have 2 open guns, 1. Is a full length non sleeved, stroked 9mm gun. 2. Is a stroked tungsten sleeved shorty (shorter than middy) timing and pulse wise def worth a middy or shorty. So far I like the sleeved gun weight and balance wise. I just haven't really shot it enough to give definitey answer on the tungsten. All the people that I know that have the sleeve swear by it. I just got the gun a couple weeks back, so need more time on it. 

[falconpilot]

TRP - Thanks for feedback..

[Specialneeds]

I would like to know more. What benefit comes from this? Tungsten eats steel.. that makes me wonder about the life expectency.

 

How much weight is gained from putting a sleeve on the barrel?

 

Not sure why a person would opt for this over a regular steel gun and comp.

 

Titanium on the muzzle and tungsten in the middle?

 

A big price for shifting said 'weight bias'.

 

Not slamming anything at all. Simply.. this seems suspect. I thought most builders were fluting barrels and using titanium years back to reduce weight. Due to swing through, or 'over aiming'.

 

Looking forward to reading more feedback from experienced persons.

[d_striker]

A buddy and I have almost identical Akai's in 9 major.  The only difference is his has the tungsten sleeve.  I've tested them side by side with the same ammo.  

 

Does the sleeve make a difference?  Absolutely.  

 

Is it worth $1000?  That's entirely up to the individual.  If you got the money to spend, why not get it?  If you are tight on money, maybe skip it.  

[ltdmstr]

I'm sure it makes a difference, but that doesn't mean it's better.  The only real difference is going to be some additional unsprung weight.  If you like a heavier gun because of how it handles, or if you rely on extra weight to help with recoil control, then it's probably a good option for you.  If you like a lighter gun, probably not. 

[Specialneeds]

2 hours ago, d_striker said:

A buddy and I have almost identical Akai's in 9 major.  The only difference is his has the tungsten sleeve.  I've tested them side by side with the same ammo.  

 

Does the sleeve make a difference?  Absolutely.  

 

Is it worth $1000?  That's entirely up to the individual.  If you got the money to spend, why not get it?  If you are tight on money, maybe skip it.  

Would you explain the "difference"?

 

This comment is extremely vague and ambiguous.

 

Slowed cyclic rate? Less muzzle rise?

[falconpilot]

My problem is I like a lighter, faster gun..really like shorty's....I was just wondering if the Tungsten really helped that much with dot tracking and recoil lift..need to find one to shoot to compare..

 

[MikeBurgess]

2 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

I'm sure it makes a difference, but that doesn't mean it's better.  The only real difference is going to be some additional unsprung weight.  If you like a heavier gun because of how it handles, or if you rely on extra weight to help with recoil control, then it's probably a good option for you.  If you like a lighter gun, probably not. 

not entirely true, the barrel and comp reciprocate a short distance together with the slide.

I'm willing to bet the biggest felt difference beside the static weight is a slower slide velocity and thus a lower impact on the frame at the end of its stroke.

 

[Specialneeds]

2 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

not entirely true, the barrel and comp reciprocate a short distance together with the slide.

I'm willing to bet the biggest felt difference beside the static weight is a slower slide velocity and thus a lower impact on the frame at the end of its stroke.

 

Increasing the 'dwell time' a few nanoseconds.. maybe a milisecond. Plus the fact those Akai guns being 'stroked' gives an extra distance before impact.

 

I would almost suspect a steel comp and bull barrel with same 'stroke' may be difficult to tell when actually firing, versus the titanium comp and tungsten sleeve.

 

At least, from a simple understanding of the browning titlting barrel design and the general mechanicals of this sidearm.

 

Any other insights?

[lacivilian]

17 minutes ago, Specialneeds said:

Increasing the 'dwell time' a few nanoseconds.. maybe a milisecond. Plus the fact those Akai guns being 'stroked' gives an extra distance before impact.

 

I would almost suspect a steel comp and bull barrel with same 'stroke' may be difficult to tell when actually firing, versus the titanium comp and tungsten sleeve.

 

At least, from a simple understanding of the browning titlting barrel design and the general mechanicals of this sidearm.

 

Any other insights?

This man gets it.

[ltdmstr]

19 minutes ago, Specialneeds said:

Increasing the 'dwell time' a few nanoseconds.. maybe a milisecond. Plus the fact those Akai guns being 'stroked' gives an extra distance before impact.

 

I would almost suspect a steel comp and bull barrel with same 'stroke' may be difficult to tell when actually firing, versus the titanium comp and tungsten sleeve.

 

At least, from a simple understanding of the browning titlting barrel design and the general mechanicals of this sidearm.

 

Any other insights?

 

Yep.  The difference is going to be miniscule.  Also, more mass on the barrel means more deceleration of the slide as the barrel unlocks, so you'll have an initial jolt right after firing, versus later in the cycle with a lighter barrel.  But that's in theory.  In reality, I highly doubt anyone could tell the difference.  A different weight recoil spring will likely have a bigger impact on an order of magnitude compared to the difference in barrel unlocking.  So really, the tungsten sleeve is just a lot of trouble and expense for nothing more than some added weight.  If that's what you're after, there are far easier and less expensive ways to get there.

[rr4406pak]

I recently acquired a stroked Akai Middy with the tungsten sleeved barrel and PT evo grip in 9mm major.

Let me tell you the dot  does  not  move  compared to what I was used to shooting. It's amazing. Worth every penny in my opinion.

[parvusimperator]

I stumbled upon this a little while ago. It's a tungsten bushing that can be fit to a barrel: https://deeprivercustoms.com/product/tungsten-tapered-sleeve-bushing/

 

Site says it weighs 0.4 lbs. Which probably gives some rough notion of the approximate weight gain that you might gain with an Akai tungsten setup. Not saying this is where Akai gets their stuff or anything.

[Maximis228]

I hear many of the team guys un stroke their guns with shock buffs. Many stack 2 or 3.

[lacivilian]

29 minutes ago, Maximis228 said:

I hear many of the team guys un stroke their guns with shock buffs. Many stack 2 or 3.

If the gun runs, a shorter stroke is better. Feel a a little harsher but the dot settles quicker due to the slide returning sooner. Stroked guns perceivably “feel better” in the hands.

[ong45]

Most everyone agrees that heavier barrels soak up some of the recoil , otherwise we would still be shooting bushing guns . 
If the jump in weight from bushing to bull is good why not bull to sleeve ? 
Swing weight is a personal consideration for sure . 
 

[dansedgli]

9 hours ago, parvusimperator said:

I stumbled upon this a little while ago. It's a tungsten bushing that can be fit to a barrel: https://deeprivercustoms.com/product/tungsten-tapered-sleeve-bushing/

 

Site says it weighs 0.4 lbs. Which probably gives some rough notion of the approximate weight gain that you might gain with an Akai tungsten setup. Not saying this is where Akai gets their stuff or anything.

 

I bought 2 of those by mistake. 

 

That bushing is used to convert your standard barrel to a bull barrel and it adds like 20 grams over a regular bull barrel of the same dimensions. It ends approximately half way to the lugs from the muzzle and is tapered down on the lug end. 

 

The tungsten sleeves akai uses are much larger and go almost all the way back to the lugs. You need to relieve your slide to fit them. The oversize tungsten sleeves need the hole at the end of your slide for the muzzle opened up too. 

 

 

 

 

[Specialneeds]

So, the idea is having the barrel weigh more than the slide... the slide is stalled more. Knowing this does not reduce recoil, it simply changes the perception of impulse.

 

I am even more foggy on this now. Seems like a lot of man hours and bucks.

 

If he is getting oldschool 5" steel barrel&comp weight in an officer sized slide&barrel package.. ok, I can see that it would remove a bit of the sting.. but $1000?

 

That is a bunch of work. Just because tungsten is exotic.

 

Hey, if you want a completely slammed out worm raping import.. with the wheels so cambered in the tires are shredded off every 5000 miles.. you gotta pay for that look.

 

I would be just fine with a ford focus that starts and safely makes the trip. Less cost, still gets mission complete.

 

I do not believe it makes the gun any faster. I highly doubt human beings are able to use that two milisecond difference of cyclic rate. After reading countless threads about "there is no standard, every shooter is different and combinations have evolved as such shooter needs"...

 

I appreciate the informations. Hope you enjoy that overly expensive thing.

 

Good shooting.

[d_striker]

On 12/3/2019 at 10:51 AM, Specialneeds said:

Would you explain the "difference"?

 

This comment is extremely vague and ambiguous.

 

Slowed cyclic rate? Less muzzle rise?

 

Vertical dot travel distance.  

[parvusimperator]

13 hours ago, dansedgli said:

 

I bought 2 of those by mistake. 

 

That bushing is used to convert your standard barrel to a bull barrel and it adds like 20 grams over a regular bull barrel of the same dimensions. It ends approximately half way to the lugs from the muzzle and is tapered down on the lug end. 

 

The tungsten sleeves akai uses are much larger and go almost all the way back to the lugs. You need to relieve your slide to fit them. The oversize tungsten sleeves need the hole at the end of your slide for the muzzle opened up too. 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the details on that. And I won't be getting those standalone sleeves.

[TRPOperator]

It may or may not be worth it, but between my full length stroked non-sleeved and my shorty sleeved stroked gun there is definitely a cycle rate (i know that is weight adn slide length) but there is also balance and other  differences. I have destroked both guns, but no a complete destroke. I use 3 aluminum shock buffs, I think 4 is a return standard and 5 starts to short stroke the gun. To me they really help control and settle the dot. It is not cheap to get the sleeve on the gun, and its true other guns, including my own run fine and work fine without it. I like the tunablibity of the Akai and they work for me. I like the feel and weight distribution. We are already running race guns that a mag set cost as much a glock, brass as much as bulk loaded ammo for some calibers, so why not,  I look at it as, if you want get it. It's really no different the spending 10K on a SV. I know I might some die hard SV fans out there mad, I have shot several open guns including SV's not dogging them at all they are super nice, but I cant see the extra 3K, but some do, but again Akai guns work for me.  

 

As mentioned above it rally comes down to preference. 

[falconpilot]

Thanks for all the info guys - It's between a Tungsten Middy or a full custom Altas..I've owned AkaiV8, Akai Katana(damn wish I had it back) and a Atlas Chaos....liked both so it'll probably just come down to me finding one available..

Edited December 5, 2019 by falconpilot

[kujo929]

My experience isn’t with akai but I have shot a tungsten sleeved limcat middy. It is different enough in feel to my atlas chaos that I wouldn’t want to run it as a backup to the chaos. It is flatter and almost a deadened feel when comparing side by side. So I would say it makes a difference and would expect the akai version to do the same.


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[falconpilot]

1 hour ago, kujo929 said:

My experience isn’t with akai but I have shot a tungsten sleeved limcat middy. It is different enough in feel to my atlas chaos that I wouldn’t want to run it as a backup to the chaos. It is flatter and almost a deadened feel when comparing side by side. So I would say it makes a difference and would expect the akai version to do the same.


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Thanks kugo! That’s the comparison I was looking for..