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Setting Up for Open Division


cperazza

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New to Open Division...Looking for some advice/opinions:

 

1) Builders: Akai V8, Atlas Chaos/Custom, SV IMM, EMG Custom Open, Limcat RazorCat, PT Honcho, STI...

  -- They all make great guns...Thoughts?  Add any other maker you think I should consider.

 

2) Caliber Choice: 38 SC (Pros: More reliable and lower pressures, Cons: Bra$$) vs 9 mm Major (Pros: Cheaper brass, Cons: Higher pressures)

  -- Thoughts: In the end it is a wash?

  -- Factory 38 SC:  Eley, Atlanta Arms (The plan is to start reloading for 38SC or 9mm)

 

3) Optics: C'more RTS2 or Traditional, Leupold Delta Point Pro, Holosun 510C, Sig Romeo 3 XL, Trijicon SRO...

  -- MOA Preference: 1-3 MOA, 5-7 MOA, 9+ MOA

 

4) Mags: 170 mm, 155 mm, 140 mm...what mixture? MBX vs TTI

 

Any advice is appreciated!  Thanks in advance...

 

Background: 

  • Coming from Limited Division...own some Atlas w/ Cheely and PT EVO Grips / Holosun 507C
  • EMG Customs building my Open Gun, but looking for a gun to get through the wait and also be a backup
  • Main experience is ELR (338 Lapua/375 Allen Magnum)/F-Class (284 Shehane)...Completely appreciate a custom build and the price tag sometimes associated with it
Edited by cperazza
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You already have an Atlas???

 

is there something about it that you don’t like?  Have you had issues with customer service / care?

 

If you like it, then I’d think Adam would be at the top of the list for an open gun.

 

Another favorite around here is Don from Venom Customs.  His work looks great and lots of happy customers here.

 

Ive had a lot of email, text and phone calls with Eddie Garcia. (EMG Customs) and he’ll be building my next gun.

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Take a look at Brazos Customs as well.  Earlier this year I took delivery on one of the USA pro series models.  It was a combined effort between Frank Garcia from Universal shooting Academy and Bob from Brazos.  Both have seen and shot it all over the years and this was what they chose to build.  If you want the USA (Universal Shooting Academy) version you have to order through Frank at Universal.  

 

I believe my second choice would have been a Honcho.  

 

I switched from 9mm major to 38 super.  Less snappy, and flatter shooting than my 9 is.  (my amateur opinion).  

 

I also switched from a 90 c-more to a Sig Romeo 1 with 6 moa dot.  It sits low against the slide, super bright even in direct sun, and for me I was wanting a more consistent site picture with my CO set up. (Sig x5 with Romeo 1).

 

 

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1:  I build my own Open guns.  If I didn't, I'd be looking at a Cheely Custom.  I love the e2 grip, and his parts are solid.  He puts the same parts in his guns that I do, except for the slide.  He won't sell any of his stash.  Limcats feel good in the hand.  I used to like the Evo grip before the e2 came along.  I'd also seriously look at the Honcho.

 

2:  9mm Major all the way.  I use 115 HAPs with Major Pistol powder.  That is the best I've found for two 3/16" poppels and an efficient comp.  Pressures are low when loaded to 1.161" OAL.  All my matches are essentially lost brass, so that killed 38SC for me.  $.16 cents each is too much to throw away for as much as I shoot.  That being said, if you can get over the brass cost, 38SC gives you a lot more flexibility, especially if you are a 3N38 lover.

 

3:  nix on the original C-More.  It sits too high and eats batteries quickly.  I have two RTS2s v4 6 MOA.  I no longer use them in USPSA or SCSA competition.  Love the view and the dot, but cannot get it bright enough for SCSA.  I have three DPP 2.5 that I currently use for competitions.  I love the ergonomics of them, but not the 2.5.  To get it bright enough to see on white steel in bring sunlight you have to crank up the dot.  That makes it bloom, and that's a little distracting for me.  The 7.5 MOA is worthless, IMO.  I'm trying the SRO right now.  So far I love it.  The 5 MOA dot stays round and doesn't bloom at high power.  It does halo like every other sight I've tried if you crank it up in dim light.  However, the dot stays round.  I really like the auto brightness setting.  It reacts quickly enough and seems to get it just right for sun and shade.  If you get a Honcho, I'd mount the SRO on the slide, not the frame.  I'd frame mount any of the others.

 

BTW, The Burris FF3 8 MOA gets little love in these forums, but it is a great sight.  The oldest of mine is slide mounted on my 1911 45.  It went 40,000 rounds before the plastic cover over the diode port cracked and fell off.  Sight still worked.  The other four are just as good.  Batteries last for many years.  The dot gradually gets dimmer and dimmer, but you don't notice.  If you pop a new battery in twice a year, the dot is bright enough for SCSA.  I still like the SRO for the bigger window.

 

4:  easy MBX 170s and 155s.  I do have some STI Gen2 tubes with TTI guts and pads.  I use them for classifiers and any time I have to drop a mag in dust or mud.

Edited by zzt
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13 hours ago, LuvDog said:

You already have an Atlas???

 

is there something about it that you don’t like?  Have you had issues with customer service / care?

 

If you like it, then I’d think Adam would be at the top of the list for an open gun.

 

Another favorite around here is Don from Venom Customs.  His work looks great and lots of happy customers here.

 

Ive had a lot of email, text and phone calls with Eddie Garcia. (EMG Customs) and he’ll be building my next gun.

 

Yes, I do have an Atlas...Looking to try something different.  Cat, Adam and the team have been great with my 2 limited guns.

 

Should have mentioned this would be my back up/while I wait for the EMG Custom Open to be done.  Eddie is building one of my Open Guns.

 

Will take a look at Don (Venom Customs)...Thanks!

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11 hours ago, konkapot said:

PM Sent. 

 

Cliffs: Don't tinker and don't forget to practice. 

 

Thanks for the PM...It was on point.  Don't underestimate the works that needs to go into it (Practice: Dry Fire/Live Fire, Equipment Maintenance: Cleaning/Lubing, Optics: Sighting Properly).

Edited by cperazza
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1 hour ago, coryf said:

Take a look at Brazos Customs as well.  Earlier this year I took delivery on one of the USA pro series models.  It was a combined effort between Frank Garcia from Universal shooting Academy and Bob from Brazos.  Both have seen and shot it all over the years and this was what they chose to build.  If you want the USA (Universal Shooting Academy) version you have to order through Frank at Universal.  

 

I believe my second choice would have been a Honcho.  

 

I switched from 9mm major to 38 super.  Less snappy, and flatter shooting than my 9 is.  (my amateur opinion).  

 

I also switched from a 90 c-more to a Sig Romeo 1 with 6 moa dot.  It sits low against the slide, super bright even in direct sun, and for me I was wanting a more consistent site picture with my CO set up. (Sig x5 with Romeo 1).

 

 

 

Forgot to mention Brazos...good catch.  Looked at PT Honcho especially with Black Friday Deals ($5K vs $6K).

 

I am building a 38SC, but thought to consider the 9mm for practice.

 

Based on one of my buddies who shoots Open...leaning towards the Sig Romeo 3 XL MOA 3 or MOA 6 (Field of view/Sight picture).  Thanks for the feedback!

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56 minutes ago, zzt said:

1:  I build my own Open guns.  If I didn't, I'd be looking at a Cheely Custom.  I love the e2 grip, and his parts are solid.  He puts the same parts in his guns that I do, except for the slide.  He won't sell any of his stash.  Limcats feel good in the hand.  I used to like the Evo grip before the e2 came along.  I'd also seriously look at the Honcho.

 

2:  9mm Major all the way.  I use 115 HAPs with Major Pistol powder.  That is the best I've found for two 3/16" poppels and an efficient comp.  Pressures are low when loaded to 1.161" OAL.  All my matches are essentially lost brass, so that killed 38SC for me.  $.16 cents each is too much to throw away for as much as I shoot.  That being said, if you can get over the brass cost, 38SC gives you a lot more flexibility, especially if you are a 3N38 lover.

 

3:  nix on the original C-More.  It sits too high and eats batteries quickly.  I have two RTS2s v4 6 MOA.  I no longer use them in USPSA or SCSA competition.  Love the view and the dot, but cannot get it bright enough for SCSA.  I have three DPP 2.5 that I currently use for competitions.  I love the ergonomics of them, but not the 2.5.  To get it bright enough to see on white steel in bring sunlight you have to crank up the dot.  That makes it bloom, and that's a little distracting for me.  The 7.5 MOA is worthless, IMO.  I'm trying the SRO right now.  So far I love it.  The 5 MOA dot stays round and doesn't bloom at high power.  It does halo like every other sight I've tried if you crank it up in dim light.  However, the dot stays round.  I really like the auto brightness setting.  It reacts quickly enough and seems to get it just right for sun and shade.  If you get a Honcho, I'd mount the SRO on the slide, not the frame.  I'd frame mount any of the others.

 

BTW, The Burris FF3 8 MOA gets little love in these forums, but it is a great sight.  The oldest of mine is slide mounted on my 1911 45.  It went 40,000 rounds before the plastic cover over the diode port cracked and fell off.  Sight still worked.  The other four are just as good.  Batteries last for many years.  The dot gradually gets dimmer and dimmer, but you don't notice.  If you pop a new battery in twice a year, the dot is bright enough for SCSA.  I still like the SRO for the bigger window.

 

4:  easy MBX 170s and 155s.  I do have some STI Gen2 tubes with TTI guts and pads.  I use them for classifiers and any time I have to drop a mag in dust or mud.

 

If I had the tools and experience, I would definitely build my own (Bucket List).  Matt Cheely is highly recommended, but he is not making Open Guns based on chatting with him.

 

Definitely tracking on brass cost, which I will have to get over.  But maybe have a 9mm for practice, to avoid the extra time picking up brass.

 

Romeo 3 XL and SRO are top on my list.

 

Copy on the mags.

 

I appreciate the feedback! 

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26 minutes ago, cperazza said:

Definitely tracking on brass cost, which I will have to get over.  But maybe have a 9mm for practice, to avoid the extra time picking up brass.

 

Practice is the only time I can recover brass.  My motto is shoot in practice what you will shoot in the match.  I shoot approx. 10,000 rounds a year in USPSA and SCSA matches.  That's $1,600 in lost brass a year.  Maybe if I were still working, but definitely not on a retirement income.  Geez.  That's half a new gun.

 

When I decided to build my two new Open guns- a 2011 for USPSA major and a 1911 for SCSA minor, everyone told be I'd spend the first six months tacking down problems and fixing them.  Well, I had none of those problems.  The 2011 ran 100% from the first shot.  I did have a problem initially with the 1911.  I fitted the slide and frame too tightly for a minor gun and couldn't get it to run with anything less than 150PF.  I loosened it up just a tad and now it runs 132-135PF 100%.  Really the biggest problem was finding 1911 9mm mags that worked 100%.

 

So if you are leaning towards 9mm major, don't let the 9mm kaboom crowd scare you off.  I've never seen a 9mm kaboom, even with those that shoot fast powders like Autocomp and CFE.  Use slow powders and load long.  Pressures will be low and the gun will last almost forever.  Plus you can buy fully processed brass for under 4 cents each.  That's what I do.

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New to Open Division...Looking for some advice/opinions:
 
1) Builders: Akai V8, Atlas Chaos/Custom, SV IMM, EMG Custom Open, Limcat RazorCat, PT Honcho, STI...
  -- They all make great guns...Thoughts?  Add any other maker you think I should consider.
 
2) Caliber Choice: 38 SC (Pros: More reliable and lower pressures, Cons: Bra$$) vs 9 mm Major (Pros: Cheaper brass, Cons: Higher pressures)
  -- Thoughts: In the end it is a wash?
  -- Factory 38 SC:  Eley, Atlanta Arms (The plan is to start reloading for 38SC or 9mm)
 
3) Optics: C'more RTS2 or Traditional, Leupold Delta Point Pro, Holosun 510C, Sig Romeo 3 XL, Trijicon SRO...
  -- MOA Preference: 1-3 MOA, 5-7 MOA, 9+ MOA
 
4) Mags: 170 mm, 155 mm, 140 mm...what mixture? MBX vs TTI
 
Any advice is appreciated!  Thanks in advance...
 
Background: 
  • Coming from Limited Division...own some Atlas w/ Cheely and PT EVO Grips / Holosun 507C
  • EMG Customs building my Open Gun, but looking for a gun to get through the wait and also be a backup
  • Main experience is ELR (338 Lapua/375 Allen Magnum)/F-Class (284 Shehane)...Completely appreciate a custom build and the price tag sometimes associated with it

Call Dan from Bedell Customs?, he makes awesome open guns..
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So you already have a build in progress with EMG but you want a new gun NOW, which will eventually be turned in to your backup gun?

 

For dots, I’d seriously look at the Romeo 3 XL.  I think that’s the next I’m going to try.

 

For mags, everyone loves MBX.  I don’t have any 155, but that also seems to be the way folks are going.  If I were putting a set together, I’d get 4 170 and 8 155.

 

I hate chasing brass, so for that reason I’d go 9mm Major.

 

Back to builders... I doubt any would be that much faster than Eddie.  So you need to find something used or pre-built.  I think Atlas has some pre-builds available.  But I’d just scour the classifieds here until something good pops up.

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On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 7:20 AM, zzt said:

 

Practice is the only time I can recover brass.  My motto is shoot in practice what you will shoot in the match.  I shoot approx. 10,000 rounds a year in USPSA and SCSA matches.  That's $1,600 in lost brass a year.  Maybe if I were still working, but definitely not on a retirement income.  Geez.  That's half a new gun.

 

When I decided to build my two new Open guns- a 2011 for USPSA major and a 1911 for SCSA minor, everyone told be I'd spend the first six months tacking down problems and fixing them.  Well, I had none of those problems.  The 2011 ran 100% from the first shot.  I did have a problem initially with the 1911.  I fitted the slide and frame too tightly for a minor gun and couldn't get it to run with anything less than 150PF.  I loosened it up just a tad and now it runs 132-135PF 100%.  Really the biggest problem was finding 1911 9mm mags that worked 100%.

 

So if you are leaning towards 9mm major, don't let the 9mm kaboom crowd scare you off.  I've never seen a 9mm kaboom, even with those that shoot fast powders like Autocomp and CFE.  Use slow powders and load long.  Pressures will be low and the gun will last almost forever.  Plus you can buy fully processed brass for under 4 cents each.  That's what I do.

 

Agree:  Practice both guns will be 38 SC or 9mm.  Understand the brass challenge with 38 SC vs 9mm.  Thanks!

 

 

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On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 4:49 PM, Hiroshi said:


Call Dan from Bedell Customs?, he makes awesome open guns..

 

On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 7:19 PM, jcc7x7 said:

Go Bedell

But he won't be quick to get back to you until deer season is over!!!

 

Thanks, got him on the list to call.

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On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 7:33 PM, donno said:

If you are located anywhere close to east coast, look up Tommy Guns. Jeff Abernathy builds some great guns.

Nope, I am near Shreveport LA.  But will definitely check them out.  Thanks!

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14 hours ago, LuvDog said:

So you already have a build in progress with EMG but you want a new gun NOW, which will eventually be turned in to your backup gun?

 

For dots, I’d seriously look at the Romeo 3 XL.  I think that’s the next I’m going to try.

 

For mags, everyone loves MBX.  I don’t have any 155, but that also seems to be the way folks are going.  If I were putting a set together, I’d get 4 170 and 8 155.

 

I hate chasing brass, so for that reason I’d go 9mm Major.

 

Back to builders... I doubt any would be that much faster than Eddie.  So you need to find something used or pre-built.  I think Atlas has some pre-builds available.  But I’d just scour the classifieds here until something good pops up.

- Yes, looking for a back up to get me through the completion of the build.

- Tracking on the Romeo 3 XL...expensive, but highly recommended

- Copy on the mags, got to get a combination of 170/155s

- Chasing brass is not fun!

- Agree...Scrubbing the classifieds daily...Thanks!

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Very wise choice going with Eddie for your gun, there isn't a better tighter nicer gun out there.  I started with a trubor 38sc and had Eddie build me a gun which I have now had for a year still as tight as day 1, slide to frame fit is perfect and racking the slide feels like it it's on ball bearings.  I recently upgraded my optics from a original trouble free romeo 3 to the romeo 3 xl I stayed with the 3 moa as I like the precision of a smaller dot. Enjoy the open game sounds like toy know the pros and cons of caliber get reloading 

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