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ClangClang

X5 Legion: DPP vs R1P? And with R1P, use the metal shroud?

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I've got a shiny Legion I've been shooting with irons but I'm ready to slap a dot on it and start dryfiring to get ready for CO next season and the occasional 2gun/3gun match.  What's everyone's take on the Delta Point Pro vs the Romeo 1 Pro?

 

For a CO-only gun I wouldn't bother with BUIS, but I'm inclined to have them on this gun especially due the anticipated carbine matches. The matches I enter tend to be very physical, lots of movement, obstacles, running, etc... I perceive above-average odds of this optic sustaining an impact while holstered.

 

My general comparison observations:

  • The overall glass area between the 2 optics is almost identical, but DPP offers more visibility vertically (slightly taller glass).  R1P offers more visibility laterally (slightly wider glass). 
  • R1P is physically shorter and with the built-in rear notch offers a very nice cowitness right out of the box with the factory green fiber optic, and it's completely unobtrusive and takes up virtually no "real estate" in the glass.
  • General durability/longevity is inconclusive. Lots of people have 15K+ on their DPPs with no issues at all (I have had 5 on various guns with no issues at all), but plenty of people have had multiple DPPs fail after just a couple hundred rounds.  Similarly, Sig has really been struggling with their optic lineups. Lots of problems, flickering dots, dead optics, etc. R1P is too new for any real durability tests or long term reviews.
  • R1P feels more fragile, especially in "default" configuration without the steel shroud. DPP feels quite sturdy but has a factory-installed (but removable) shroud. 
  • To get a cowitnessing front sight for the DPP requires the Dawson 0.4" sight which is ridiculously tall and could conceivably interfere with holster compatibility, probably create a snag point, and definitely take up "real estate" in the glass, etc.

 

So to the peanut gallery, I ask - which optic do I roll with?


And secondarily, for those who have decided on the R1P, do you use the metal shroud?  It should be a no-brainer, except for the fact that the base of the shroud lifts the optic taller than the cutout milled into the slide. This leaves the R1P secured exclusively by 2 screws with no bosses or other external physical support for the optic body. The shroud is also unsupported as it is shorter than the pocket in the optic. I have serious concerns about the screws eventually breaking if they are asked to sustain tens of thousands of recoils and hundreds (maybe thousands) of slide rackings because we all know that, right or wrong, CO slides get racked by the optic. Is the answer to use the shroud anyway for general protection and just proactively replace the screws every ~5k rounds to be safe? Or perhaps some sort of bedding compound to better support the shroud in the optic pocket?

Edited by ClangClang

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Follow up pics.

 

Side by side comparison. I have the R1P on some folded paper so that the glass is on the same altitude as the DPP for an (attempted) apples-to-apples visual.

 

kDrK7ZMh.thumb.jpg.2efa4c112e431ff7621d98def490e609.jpg

 

 

R1P shroud sitting in the Legion slide. You can see there is a ~0.5mm gap behind the shroud within the optic cut (and a similar gap in front). What's also strange are the rear holes in the shroud. What are they there for? It would have been quite slick for Sig to allow the shroud to be secured from under the slide as well for a total of 4 screws through it instead of just the 2 main optic screws. The rear holes in the slide are where the screws go from under the slide to secure the rear iron sight.

How would you bed this or fill that rear gap?

 

GQqrBwMh.thumb.jpg.ea4c3f7d088486fe02f460920c78503f.jpg

 

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I can swap between a SRO and R1P on my two Legions without any adjustments. SRO sits taller because of the Springer plate. In live fire the dot stays inside the SRO glass but disappears in the R1P. In reality muscle memory dictates the follow up shot and the eye confirms the acceptable sight picture before breaking the shot. In short, a dot is a dot. Shoot as you see.

 

Knowing what I know now I would get a second R1P and skip the SRO. Can’t comment on reliability yet.

The R1P screws are thicker than the SRO. I run the shroud.

 

I got the SRO in July during the hype so paid $540 plus another $45 for a silly plate that requires filing to fit. The R1P was under $400 and planned to keep it as a backup. I actually like it and it’s easier to sight in with the rear notch and factory front sight.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

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Romeo1 is my vote.  I wanted the site as low to the slide as possible.  It was much easier for me to pick up the dot.  

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R1 Pro...easy choice. Both of the DPPs I had needed to be returned to Leupold for the battery contact issue. No thanks.

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Of the 2 I would say DPP. Good quality and clear glass. Very easy to see and dot doesn’t disappear during recoil


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I have both sights. Tho only major difference that I see is Sig must use a coating to help see the dot when you are shooting into the sun. 

 At the club I shoot at the ranges face south. In the fall the sun is low. With the DPP sights it was very hard to see the dot.

At the last steel match I had a hard time seeing the dot due to the sun. 

 I tried the Romeo one pro after the match and could see the dot much better. 

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Not an apple-to-apples, but FWIW I have a DPP on my Shadow 2 and just picked up an X-five legion with an SRO from a friend. Hands down, for the $100 I thought the SRO was the best I’ve ever used. Will probably sell the x-five legion but will definitely be keeping the SRO. 

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 R1P owners any note of brass to your optic frame work or lens ?   If so have you found a fix .  My pistol is a p320XC  I'll carry at some point down the road  when eye sight or hands want something other than hot 40sw loads  . Mine has a Romeo on it and a number of different loads hit the frame of the optic but not the lens yet .  I would also like brass to fly a shorter distance than 10 feet + or - at 4:30  with standard defensive  ammo , no lite loads no +P .   If the ejector was not part of the FCU I would start filing it shorter a little at a time . That's worked for me in the past  but never had this type brass to optic issue right off 

Edited by hardluk1

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4 hours ago, hardluk1 said:

 R1P owners any note of brass to your optic frame work or lens ?   If so have you found a fix .  My pistol is a p320XC  I'll carry at some point down the road  when eye sight or hands want something other than hot 40sw loads  . Mine has a Romeo on it and a number of different loads hit the frame of the optic but not the lens yet .  I would also like brass to fly a shorter distance than 10 feet + or - at 4:30  with standard defensive  ammo , no lite loads no +P .   If the ejector was not part of the FCU I would start filing it shorter a little at a time . That's worked for me in the past  but never had this type brass to optic issue right off 


Every pistol I’ve ever had with a slide mounted red dot has had the brass hit the optic. Multiple Glocks and sig p320s. 

Edited by Rich406

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I put the shroud on the R1P, it came in the box so why not

Edited by zhunter

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Rich406   Our only other pistol with an optic  is m&p core and no brass to optic with it .

 

 zhunter  Yea I can  but I'm also trying to control how brass is ejected  and the distance its throwing brass .  This is something I have done with several  pistols  but by reducing the length of the ejector  but on a 1911 or m&p that's not a be deal to change if screwed up !   

 Thanks .

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1 hour ago, zhunter said:

I put the shroud on the R1P, it came in the box so why not

Do you know how much that shroud weighs?Do you know how much that shroud weighs?

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I'm no longer a DPP fan. The battery contact issue is so prevalent. I nudge mine forward with a pencil eraser. I moved onto Romeo 3XL's on my 2 Legions. 100% better! Large, clear glass, bright dot (6 MOA beats the 2.5 DPP dot for shooting sports). No regrets!

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1 hour ago, B585 said:

Do you know how much that shroud weighs?Do you know how much that shroud weighs?

 

No, I don’t, but I can weigh the gun with and without mag tomorrow.

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Gun weights with Shroud

 

 

BA4F83FE-7A52-4404-8785-6EA298812EB0.jpeg

With Mag is 1.174 Kilograms = 41.4116 oz.

 

B898660B-E62B-4D0C-A826-B8CA67747E17.jpeg

 

No Mag is 1.075 kilograms = 37.9195 oz.

Edited by zhunter

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   Isn't the carry optic weight limit now 45oz ?  So  add the metal shroud or not , That  metal shroud on your play guns does not matter unless your really rough on it .   I'm only trying to  drop brass half the distance away it is normally  but maybe  that's not an issue on the X5 fun guns  .

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On 1/23/2020 at 1:44 PM, hardluk1 said:

 R1P owners any note of brass to your optic frame work or lens ?   If so have you found a fix .  My pistol is a p320XC  I'll carry at some point down the road  when eye sight or hands want something other than hot 40sw loads  . Mine has a Romeo on it and a number of different loads hit the frame of the optic but not the lens yet .  I would also like brass to fly a shorter distance than 10 feet + or - at 4:30  with standard defensive  ammo , no lite loads no +P .   If the ejector was not part of the FCU I would start filing it shorter a little at a time . That's worked for me in the past  but never had this type brass to optic issue right off 

I have had NO hits on the RP1 optic on my Legion

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 Might be your load and the larger pistol easily being more tuneable with spring changes . Mines a 3.6"   for carry . Thanks .  

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