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5% failure on reloads


Dmatzinger

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  • thank you all for your responses.  greatly appreciated.  
  • I cannot get to answering all the questions, but here is my update for tonight.
  • CCI requested i set the depth at .005 -.008 inches, where most of mine were flush, i pulled apart mu primer seat station on the press, and found a couple of gun powder flakes.  I cleaned this entire assemble, and now i am routinely seating primers in the spec as per cci.
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as per the other post here with regards to liquid processing, I think I might be facing both issues.

 

I did air dry, then put in a bucket, and close the lid.

 

I have since added a tumbler to "polish" the brass, and have ordered a dryer for my brass, post ultrasonic clean.

 

I will not make it to the range for a few days, but, my next test will be as follows, 

 

ultra sonic clean, followed by corn cob tumble, (after it has fully dried), and then loaded at the CCI spec, og .005 - .008.  I will shoot these rounds, and expect 100% success.  

 

Thanks again for all the feed back, it has pointed me into the direction of, (hopefully), success.

 

I will update over the weekend after I get through the next 100 rounds...

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7 hours ago, Dmatzinger said:

I will not make it to the range for a few days, but, my next test will be as follows, 

 

ultra sonic clean, followed by corn cob tumble, (after it has fully dried), and then loaded at the CCI spec, og .005 - .008.  I will shoot these rounds, and expect 100% success.  

 

 

Quick and easy test.  Take 2-300 pieces of brass, and dry tumble them, then load them up and shoot them.  No other changes to your process.  If they all shoot fine, you know your answer. 

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19 hours ago, AHI said:

Have seen cases that were wet cleaned then dried put into storage (sealed container ) that had water in them 

6 months later. 

If they had water in them they were never dried properly to begin with. Also this usually causes primers to corrode in the pocket and results in a lot of ringers. 

Edited by bwikel
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Tldr. 

 

Dry your brass really good by a heater with a fan. Give it a day or two, dont rush it. No reason to. 

 

If youre using a hand primer dealio like the Lyman or RCBS tray hand pumper, it will evebtually wear out. Theres a little cam-like mechanism that wears and will fail to insert the primer at full extension. I have 2 lyman versions here. One is worn out.

 

When i am loading things that matter, i use the rcbs rock chucker primer arm to give it a firm pull down.. Curse rcbs for removing the primer tube from their single stage press.. Priming is easily the biggest b!tch process out of the whole ordeal..... Expect maybe full length resizing in a small base rcbs die. 

 

Last bit of paranoia, had a few win primers need a second tap. CCI always work.... But that was before i learned the primer tool was wearing out. I refuse to believe cci does something the others dont. 

 

if in doubt, restrike the primer and it might go! Usually from bad primer depth.  Goes to say something about the DA guns like SIGs having a restrike capability. 

 

 

 

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combination, again used 4 difeerant guns, 

1 canik does have wollfe and glock spring combo kit for the canik, an aftermarket trigger, and a couple of other mods, 5% failure rate, (5 in 100)

1 canik is bone stock, 5% failure rate (5 in 100)

1 glock 26 bone stock 5% failure rate, (1 in 20)

1Glock 34 modified, springs barrel, trigger 4% failure rate. (4 in 100).

 

I have purchased a dryer, and have generated the following experiments,

Loaded 100 rounds CCi primers, (measured the depth at CCi spec of .005 - .008In), SNS 125 bullet, range brass tumble cleaned only, (no ultrasonic).

loaded 100 rounds Winchester primers, (they naturally all seated better and deeper, .008 - .014), sns bullet, range brass tumble cleaned only, (no ultrasonic).

loaded 100 rounds CCi primers, (measured the depth at CCi spec of .005 - .008In), SNS 125 bullet, range brass ultrasonic cleaan, laymen brass dryer dryed, tumble polished with corn cob media,  

I will post feedback once I shoot the 300 rounds, after all I read, (thanks you all for the feedback), and speaking to each component manufacture, the press manufacture, and anyone else who would listen, I believe my problem was moisture, and the CCi primers were not seated deep enough, (most were flush to .002 in deep, and the spec is .005 - .008).

 

the three experiments I think will all be successful, as the two issues are both addressed.  If they all succeed, I will be swithing to Winchester primers, as they install smoothly on my 650.  The CCi, require an extreme amount of force to get to the depth CCi specs.  Not sure why they install differently, but out of 100, all the Winchester seated without issue, where as the CCi, 20% were not to the spec on first try, and need to put them back into press to seat deeper.

 

Thanks again for all the feed back!

 

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I have used CCi for decades with no problems until about two years ago. The problem was not with the round not firing but on my 650 about 10 of 100 the primer pin would draw the primer back into the case. I now use Winchester or Remington with no problems. I have never used ultrasonic cleaners, don't even own one. I never wash the cases. Walnut in case cleaner 45 minutes, cobs 45 minutes. They don't all look shiny but they all do fire. Nothing is added to either to make them shine. I load about 2000 per month with no misfires.

 

Every time I change the load I make up 20 rounds check and test fire them. Then 50 to 100 same thing. If all goes well I don't touch it again.

I hope you problem is solved.

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On 11/18/2019 at 9:53 PM, Dmatzinger said:

I just started reloading , and in my first batch, I have a 5% failure rate.

 

Range brass, (Ultra sonically cleaned, air dried for about >30 days).

 

Any suggestions are GREATLY appreciated.

 

It's possible that you still had water drops caught in the base of some of the brass, even with that extended drying period.  I once had a bunch of reloaded shotshells give a high percentage of failures to fire after washing the empty hulls and drying them but not adequately.    Try oven drying the brass at low heat, say 200º, for a couple of hours and see it that ends the problem.

Edited by SteelCityShooter
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1 hour ago, zombywoof said:

At .014, Winchestet primers will not go bang. Your seating them too deep.

Explain      we seat most primers .011 to.015 below flush with no issues.

There are a few headstamps that wont allow this and some that require a deeper set.

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Not likely primers are seated too deep on a 650. High primers are a known problem with 650's and much more likely if it is a seating problem. Put the suspect rounds on a flat table surface and see if they rock and you will know if they are high. Be sure your primer seating assembly (below platform) is snugged up and tight. That is usually the culprit on a 650 if the primers are too high. If it is not snugged up, that is the problem. I've never had a problem with any primers in a stock Glock unless the primers were too high. OTW the primers are probably wet. You can probably figure out how I know all this.

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It's possible that you still had water drops caught in the base of some of the brass, even with that extended drying period.  I once had a bunch of reloaded shotshells give a high percentage of failures to fire after washing the empty hulls and drying them but not adequately.    Try oven drying the brass at low heat, say 200º, for a couple of hours and see it that ends the problem.

Or a food dehydrator works well too. I put them in the dehydrator after wet tumbling in the Frankfort arsenal tumbler for about an hour, then they go into a 40mm ammo can with a reusable silica pack to be sure they’re dry cause I’m paranoid and also super ocd when it comes to reloading lol. Never had any problems though so I’ll keep doing it that way.


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range report, 

100% of my 300 rounds fired today!

 

I am going to conclude, it was residual moisture, and now that I have a dryer, I expect to continue >99% success rate.  As for the 600 rounds I have that iu expect 5% failure, I will run these as practice ammo, and use them up in short order.  Moving forward, (after I consume the remaining 8K CCi), I will be moving to Winchester primers, as the seat more repeatable in my 650...

 

Thanks to all those who helped me down this path! 

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14 hours ago, Degnan said:

Brand new to reloading, and was reluctant to start due to the time commitment.  This is one of my fears...  

Please don't let my story push you out.  Yes it was 5% failure rate, but the experiments to find the root cause, and then solve the problem, was a great experience, and you can learn from my mistakes, and not have to learn them on your own.

 

Reloading is actually therapeutic.  I have a fairly stressful job, and I looked forward to reading all the advice here, creating an experiment, loading a batch, shooting it at the range, and draw up the next experiment.  

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Brand new to reloading, and was reluctant to start due to the time commitment.  This is one of my fears...  

While hiccups in reloading can be a pia, fusing the cause is part of the fun imo. Gives you a chance to do something most people never will, and you almost always come out learning something new. If everything always go perfectly you stop learning. And there is so much to learn about reloading you’ll always be learning. Iv been loading for 5ish years and am still learning new things. Try to stick with the hobby, it can be very rewarding, and this community is always here to help when you run into something you’re not sure about


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13 hours ago, Dmatzinger said:

Please don't let my story push you out.  Yes it was 5% failure rate, but the experiments to find the root cause, and then solve the problem, was a great experience, and you can learn from my mistakes, and not have to learn them on your own.

 

Reloading is actually therapeutic.  I have a fairly stressful job, and I looked forward to reading all the advice here, creating an experiment, loading a batch, shooting it at the range, and draw up the next experiment.  

No worries!  I just got started with my 750, but will not be giving it up.  Just loaded 6 different powder charges to start dialing in my formula.  Chrono is getting delivered today.

 

BTW, bought and watched Dillon's "Electronic User Guide" and it was very helpful.  While you can get a lot of information from here and YouTube there is nothing like getting it from the source. 

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