Ear Muffs that dont interfere with cheek weld?

[GregJ]

I use ear plugs along with my electronic ear pro, and find my ear pro hits the PCC stock.  What electronic ear muffs have y'all found that do not hit the stock and interfere with your cheek weld?

[GunBugBit]

I think a lot of people go to electronic -- or even non-electronic -- ear buds to solve that problem.  I don't shoot carbines in competition but if I did, I think I'd use ear buds or just the cheap orange banded ear plugs.

Edited November 18, 2019 by GunBugBit

[mrd]

When running the red dot sight at standard height, 1.50 inches from rail to center of optics, I have no problems with the stock hitting my ear muffs (thin MSA Sordin Pro-X). Large muffs might be a problem. I also tried running scope/red dot lower to get a tighter cheek weld, but then I got problems with my ear muffs hitting the stock. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by mrd

[Nathanb]

I run sordins without issue

[mellino19]

Peltor Tactical 100s. I have no problems with them at all for cheek weld and they're all around awesome. Just get some gel cups for added all day comfort.

[mveto]

I’ve never been able to get a good cheek weld while wearing muffs. I’ll wait her use electronic walker ear buds or custom made silicon molds when shooting rifles.

[assaultthesalt]

MSA Sordin Pro-X  here with no issues.Oh...I'm running the gel cups.

[Archangelgt]

MSA Sordins also. They are pricey and don’t have the best DB reduction, but comfortable for all day use. 
 

I double up when shooting rifle indoors, or on a crowded outdoor shooting line when there’s cover.

[m700]

I've always used cheep ear plugs. They offer more protection than muffs. I recently added electronic muffs to the range bag but always go back to plugs with rifles. I dont have any pccs but if I did I would more than likely just use plugs

[egd5]

Peltor tactical 300 for me. All I shoot is pcc.

[BlackBuzzard]

PCC's  have lot less blast.  Sometimes even the timer cant hear them.

 

Wear earplugs only when you're shooting, then wear muffs rest of time over plugs, like  when the open dudes with ports go at it.

 

[ck1]

I always wear the foamy type earplugs AND muffs indoors, I just use the foamies shooting outside (most foamies like the ubiquitous orange ones do 35dB NR which is pretty good). 

I purposely do not mess with  or recommend electronic ear muffs because their noise reduction is generally lower rated by a significant dB amount versus passive muffs, usually 25-29dB NR. Decibels are hard to comprehend sometimes, but an extra 6dB is twice as loud! Passive are just better if you want to preserve your hearing.

As for low profile muffs, I run the “Pro For Sho” muffs.... dumb name, but they’re 36dB NR and very low profile, especially for their NR rating.

[Sarge]

There are some very good electronic muffs out there when it comes to DB. There must be a reason nearly every shooter I see at matches uses them.

  They let you hear what is going on for one thing. They even pick up squibs much better than passive.

  Yes, I have some good old peltor passive muffs that let virtually no sound in but they block everything and that’s not always a good thing.

[ck1]

42 minutes ago, Sarge said:

There are some very good electronic muffs out there when it comes to DB. There must be a reason nearly every shooter I see at matches uses them.

  They let you hear what is going on for one thing. They even pick up squibs much better than passive.

  Yes, I have some good old peltor passive muffs that let virtually no sound in but they block everything and that’s not always a good thing.

I totally agree, there is a place for the electronic ear pro. That said, most shooters, or most people really, don’t really get how the decibel scale works, and it works in a snowball/exponential way where a small number in dB’s means a lot more than the number might seem to appear/suggest... You could go to a rock concert at 130dB and your ears might ring for a day or two, go to a concert at 140dB and the ringing might not ever go away and one’s hearing might not ever be the same.

 

I’ve worked in audio for a long time and am probably just a nerd about this subject, but while electronic ear pro might be popular, if you’re really looking to preserve your hearing, more NR is better, and passives are just better right now. Yes, the electronic ones let you hear more between shots, but I’ve never missed a command or a squib with passive ear pro ever.

Honestly, the cheap foam ear plugs that do 34+dB NR are probably the best and muffs aren’t really ideal except for comfort’s sake.

 

Also, and not to nerd out, electronic ear pro is based on an “active” system which uses compression/limiting of the audio signal to turn down the louder signals and turn up the quieter signals based on preset thresholds... none of the companies offering electronic ear pro will commit to exactly how fast their systems catch transients (like a snare drum’s crack, or a gun shot report), and if the transient sound isn’t caught fast enough then it doesn’t stop the potential damage...

Edited November 19, 2019 by ck1

[travail]

I have the Peltor 500's but still have trouble with the cheek weld myself. I use the decibullz percussion earplugs when I'm on the clock, then switch to the ear muffsmuffs right after. Still not ideal, but helps and you can still hear well with the percussive filter.

[MILDOTS]

I started using electronic ear muffs after I was shooting man on man the guy on my right started shootiing for no apparent reason until I realized that I hadn’t heard the beep. I actually just quit shooting my AR15. The audiologist told me there are 12 frequencies and I can only hear 5. But I still shoot my PCC .i have no problem getting a good cheek weldwith my rifles. 

[Hihellosup]

I have walker razor slims, but they will get in the way unless I do the following:

 

Pull the ear muffs UP so that the bottom of the ear muffs are as high as they can be.

 

Roll the headband forward towards the front of my head, which changes the angle of the bottom of the ear muffs, in turn providing more clearance. You could also roll it backwards but it will probably fall off your head.

 

That usually is enough for me, but you can also rotate your face inwards towards the gun, which will bring your ear further away from the stock.

 

Lastly, you can buy an expensive stock like XLR's which has a small cheek riser, and a large gap between the buffer tube and the butt of the stock which leaves tons of room for ear muffs.

 

 

My recommendation is to stick to the first 2 things I mentioned, and eventually you will learn how to get a cheek weld without too much interference. Rotating your face inward is a last resort because it will cause you to look through the edge of your glasses which is not a good place to be. Keeping your face as flat to the target as you can will also give you better vision of a stage.

[GregJ]

Great info all, much appreciated! 

[bulldog009]

On 11/18/2019 at 1:26 PM, mveto said:

I’ve never been able to get a good cheek weld while wearing muffs. I’ll wait her use electronic walker ear buds or custom made silicon molds when shooting rifles.

I'm the exact same. I've never been comfortable with muffs when shooting anything with a shoulder stock. I always end up with the muff on my right ear starting to get picked up by the stock. I've been running custom silicone plugs since college, the molds were done by an audiologist that knew what he was doing, so they are fantastic. The only issue I've ever had with them is having a stock catch on the string that holds the two plugs together if I hadn't checked that it was behind my left shoulder before the buzzer and ripping one of the plugs (normally the right) out mid-stage during a transition. 

I have Peltor electronic muffs that I'll use if I'm shooting an all pistol match, but I have a fairly large head (wear a 7 3/4" fitted hat), so they begin to give me headaches from squeezing in on my temples. They are mostly reserved for the girlfriend when she comes shooting with me. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by bulldog009

[BillChunn]

Ran into the same issue when shooting the PCC so switched to "in ear" protection.  They are a bit on the pricey side but don't interfere with the stock.

Have started in Steel Challenge with PCC and rimfire rifle and as Sarge said, not hearing all the correct stuff can be a bad thing, like the round dinging the steel.

These were at a price point that was below other in-ear models, have a recharging case and Bluetooth integration to your phone for controls.

 

Walker Silencer BT

 

Amazon has them for less than the Walker website (link)

 

BC

[kozy]

22 hours ago, BillChunn said:

Ran into the same issue when shooting the PCC so switched to "in ear" protection.  They are a bit on the pricey side but don't interfere with the stock.

Have started in Steel Challenge with PCC and rimfire rifle and as Sarge said, not hearing all the correct stuff can be a bad thing, like the round dinging the steel.

These were at a price point that was below other in-ear models, have a recharging case and Bluetooth integration to your phone for controls.

 

Walker Silencer BT

 

Amazon has them for less than the Walker website (link)

 

BC

For $250 bucks that ain’t bad at all

 

[Jwbfx4]

Really been thinking about getting the walker silencer bt earbuds, but just wondering how long the battery would hold up before it quits taking a good charge. Lot of money to spend if they didn’t last well. I’ve had a few earbuds for running and work and seems like most of them quit taking a charge 14 months in or so. 

 

But right now i use the walker razor and I sometimes have issue with the   cheek weld

[kooyahdesigns]

I also have the walker in ear but I do not have the bluetooth version. I do recommend the rechargeable version since changing batteries gets really old really fast.  

[Nemesis Lead]

I shoot PCC with standard ear plugs.  When I shoot .223, I put the over ear protection on and had the same issue as you.

 

I solved this by going to a slightly higher optic mount.  The difference between co-witness height and lower third co-witness height is more significant than you think.  A "close" check weld vs a "looser" one.

 

It may not work, but it is worth a try if you have a collection of optic mounts like I do.

[WhoIsThisGuy]

On 11/18/2019 at 8:27 PM, ck1 said:

I totally agree, there is a place for the electronic ear pro. That said, most shooters, or most people really, don’t really get how the decibel scale works, and it works in a snowball/exponential way where a small number in dB’s means a lot more than the number might seem to appear/suggest... You could go to a rock concert at 130dB and your ears might ring for a day or two, go to a concert at 140dB and the ringing might not ever go away and one’s hearing might not ever be the same.

 

I’ve worked in audio for a long time and am probably just a nerd about this subject,…

 

Also, and not to nerd out, electronic ear pro is based on an “active” system which uses compression/limiting of the audio signal to turn down the louder signals and turn up the quieter signals based on preset thresholds... none of the companies offering electronic ear pro will commit to exactly how fast their systems catch transients (like a snare drum’s crack, or a gun shot report), and if the transient sound isn’t caught fast enough then it doesn’t stop the potential damage...

Interesting but apparently you have no idea how it works despite being an audio guy.  
 

it’s not an active filter.  It’s a passive earmuff with a microphone and speaker.  There is no “too fast and it sneaks by”. That’d be like you yelling and then apologizing because your mouth worked before your brain told it what volume to use.

 

The microphone picks up the signal.  The processor “processed” it,  and the output waveform is sent by the speaker to the ear.  You will NEVER have a 160db signal transmitted.  It just doesn’t work like that.  

but to elaborate, and explain your confusion about signal speed, if a digital sampler is taking in a signal at 1 sample per nanosecond, and an impulse that was 1/2 a nanosecond hit at 200db, well, it simply wouldn’t sample that signal.  It’d miss it.  If it picked it up, it would (depending on the processing) attenuate it to the max allowed (120db maybe) or simply cut off the signal by not transmitting at all.  It either clips the amplitude or it could turn off completely.

 

in this case, of course, the passive muffs would only attenuate the 200db to about 175db.  Thankfully it’s only for a half a nanosecond.

 

incidentally, db matters for both sound level and duration!  A 130db muffled gunshot isn’t as bad as a 120db 2-hour rock concert.  OSHA even has times for decibels for acceptable exposure.  
 

bottom line, your electronic ear pro won’t “miss” a fast loud crack so your questions to the manfs about sampling rates is moot.