DAA Mr. Bullet Feeder inconsistent

[RangerTrace]

I got my bullet feeder this week and GM Lee Neel came over last night to make sure I had everything set up correctly.  I'm loading 147 grain Zero JHP bullets.  So far, no matter what we tried, I'm getting an occasional upside down bullet and occasional 2 bullets at the same time.  We positioned the BF far enough to the rear that it's not pulling on the dropper and it's not letting bullets stack up in the spring tube.  This is probably happening once every 25 rounds or so.  It's still faster than no bullet feeder, but I wish I could make this go away.

 

Thoughts?

[RangerTrace]

I've read the recent thread on here where adding side tension with a spring may fix the doubles, but what could be causing the upside down bullets?  

[ltdmstr]

Try adding or removing the black/white ramp inserts.  There's not much room for adjustment, and any issues I've had I was able to solve by changing those because they control the height of the bullet as it goes on the flip ramp or whatever you call it.  Also, check to make sure a bullet hasn't wedged between the rotating plate and the little spring loaded arm on the left side of the opening.

[Sarge]

17 minutes ago, RangerTrace said:

I've read the recent thread on here where adding side tension with a spring may fix the doubles, but what could be causing the upside down bullets?  

The little black insert thingies are causing upside down bullets. When I tried PD JHP’s I was getting a lot of upside down bullets after loading many thousand MG’s without a single one.

  Use a mirror or lower the MBF and watch it run. You will see how they sometimes ride right over the cutouts and not flip over. 

  Adjusting them is like adjusting oal. You only have to move them a 16th of an inch to cure it.

[RangerTrace]

I will give that a shot.

[RangerTrace]

All it needed was the nose guide adjustment to come down about .01"  and to use just one of the thick spacers.  I just loaded 200 rounds without a hiccup as long as I kept a little bit of pressure on the brass part of the dropper.  Now I just have to figure out which method I want to use to take care of that issue. 

[DJRyan13]

MBF has a learning curve and I too had problems in beginning. Spend some time on the MBF website (Rick’s old site) and it will help. Upside down bullets can be due to a lot of things. Best if you get a ladder and watch it. Remove the spring tube from the die and let them drop in your hand. until you see one fall upside down, you will just be guessing.
 

When you think all the little parts are adjusted right, it’s probably the hopper itself isn’t at right angle. 
 

wish I could give better advice but it’s hard when you can’t see what is going on. 
 

as for the double, it is because of too much tension on spring when bullet is dropping. The rubber band or spring kits sold are just covering the poor setup or tight spring tube. You can pull spring tube to stretch but careful you don’t overdue it.
 

good luck! You will get it working. 

[MemphisMechanic]

31 minutes ago, RangerTrace said:

All it needed was the nose guide adjustment to come down about .01"  and to use just one of the thick spacers.  I just loaded 200 rounds without a hiccup as long as I kept a little bit of pressure on the brass part of the dropper.  Now I just have to figure out which method I want to use to take care of that issue. 

For now, attach a rubberband to the C-clip on the dropper and wrap the other end around the die underneath the toolhead. Works for the short term, til it stretches out too much.

 

Also, one of the most important adjustments to prevent the last “three times in a thousand” little bit of bullets feeding upside down?

 

The angle of the bullet feeder. It matters. Steep is good. Mine is probably canted at 50 degrees or so. The MBF mounting system makes you want to hang it from the side of your casefeeder at far less than 45 degrees when you first assemble it. A steeper incline seems better.

Edited November 17, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[chevrofreak]

After I suspended my MBF from the ceiling rather than the case feeder I pretty much completely stopped getting upside down bullets.  The shaking the 650 induced would interrupt the natural process of the MBF. 

[78Staff]

I also have less issues with the MBF mounted solid vs on the casefeeder.   Agree that shims are the key, you will need to tweak them to get it just right with your bullet profile.

 

DAA actually sells an optimization kit that includes pre-set guides for popular bullet profiles, along with a revised ramp, a mounting guide, and a few other odd and ends.  It's ridiculously overpriced, but is an option if you just can't get it feeding like you want...

 

https://www.doublealpha.biz/us/mr-bulletfeeder-optimization-kit

 

Re the double bullet drop, pretty much the universal fix for that is the rubber band trick or the spring addon...

 

https://usa-shop.armanov.com/product/mr-bullet-feeder-dropper-assembly-solution-no-consistent-seating-problem/

 

Or several homemaid versions...  Personally I used IVC's version with a Hornady lock die on all my toolheads.

 

another version...

 

Here's the answer from Mr. BulletFeeder site...  essentially you want to remove any friction on the die/dropper mechanism, and the rubber band/spring fix helps return the drop collar quicker preventing doubles.

 

Quote

 

Q: While reloading, I notice that sometimes several bullets fall out of my dropper at once! Why is that? What should I check?

The dropper has to slide freely up and down smoothly and quickly.
When the case lifts the dropper up – the bullets drop down, and the lower one is tapped into the case, then, as the case goes back down the dropper MUST follow down with it immediacy in order for the steel balls to close up and prevent the rest of the bullets from dropping.
If this is not working as it should, check the following:
1. The most common reason for this is the collator is positioned too far way and there is too much sideways tension from the large output spring pulling on the dropper – and creating too much friction, preventing it from sliding down as it should. Try to bring the collator closer, or if not possible – stretch out the spring and wire a little – so that they apply less tension to the dropper.
2. Check to see the dropper body is not rubbing up against the Dillon powder measure, as that could also prevent it from moving up and down smoothly.
3. check to see there is no burr or sharp edge preventing it from moving. Try this: disconnect the spring and wires – and push the dropper up and down from below – the same way the case will – see that it moves up and falls down smoothly and quickly when you remove your finger.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by 78Staff

[IVC]

On 11/17/2019 at 7:36 AM, RangerTrace said:

So far, no matter what we tried, I'm getting an occasional upside down bullet...

A lot of people play with shims and the flip ramp, but the solution is usually just in positioning the depth of the shim carrier (the part that can move when you loosen the screw). Once you understand how it works, it becomes easy (and quick) to adjust.

 

Bullets that are "right side up" will "flow" over the shim because the small exposed part of the shim provides enough support on the flat bullet bottom. Bullets that are "upside down" will have the tip "miss" the shim, which will cause them to fall sideways. Once they tip over, the ramp will flip them in most cases without any adjustment (as long as you are staying within the same category of bullets, i.e., "pistol bullets"). When switching between .40, 38 SC and 9, I only adjust the location of the shims, I don't add/remove them, I don't touch the feed ramp. Here is the process:

 

1. Preparation: get a stepping stool so that you can be above the MBF and can manipulate the bullets in the collator. Loosen the shim screw a bit so that you can move it in/out, disconnect the switch terminals from the die and pull back the plastic protection. 
2. Step 1 - Determine how far *in* the shim can go without tipping the *right side up* bullets. Short the terminals so that collator starts moving, remove (or ignore) any upside down bullets and simply find a position where all your *rights side up* bullets "survive" crossing the shims. This is your inner point reference - you cannot go further in since you'll end up flipping incorrect bullets.
3. Step 2 - Determine how far *out* the shim can go and still tip *upside down bullets*. When shims are way in, no bullet will get flipped because there will be no lip. When shims are way out, no bullet will get flipped because the tip will go over the shim, not across the edge. You'll quickly find the range where the bullets tip, then as you move outwards, they will stop tipping again. Again, use bare connectors to get the collator going. 
4. Step 3 - Split the difference from steps 2 and 3 and call it "good." Run the collator and observe the bullets. If you see any "right side up" bullets getting tipped, the shim doesn't provide enough support on the base and must move a bit *out*. If you see any "upside down bullets" not getting tipped, the tip of the bullet is not catching enough of the edge and you have to move the shims slightly *in*.

There should be plenty of room between positions in steps 2 and 3, so you can get it to work reliably. Only if you cannot find such a position should you tinker with the thickness of the shims. The instructions talk about bullets sitting at a particular depth, but that's really not relevant - as long as the "right side up" bullets flow over the shims and the "upside down ones" are tipped to the side, you're done with the most difficult adjustment. 

 

Of course, if you switch to rifle bullets or some significantly different shape or length, you might have to adjust the flip ramp too. Just keep in mind that the "brains" of MBF happens when bullets cross the shims and where the discrimination happens. The rest, such as the actual flipping, is trivial.

 

 

 

 

[IVC]

Just a quick follow up...

 

If you get an upside down bullet in the tube, it can happen for two reasons: (1) a right side up bullet got flipped, or (2) an upside down bullet didn't. When you have an occasional issue, figure out whether it's because of (1) or (2). If it's (1), the bullet didn't have enough support on the base to pass the shim, so nudge it *outwards*. If it's (2), the bullet got too much support from the shim and needs to get more of the edge, so nudge the shims *inwards*. 

 

This should get you to a pretty consistent setup. 

[RangerTrace]

On 11/22/2019 at 3:17 PM, IVC said:

A lot of people play with shims and the flip ramp, but the solution is usually just in positioning the depth of the shim carrier (the part that can move when you loosen the screw). Once you understand how it works, it becomes easy (and quick) to adjust.

 

Bullets that are "right side up" will "flow" over the shim because the small exposed part of the shim provides enough support on the flat bullet bottom. Bullets that are "upside down" will have the tip "miss" the shim, which will cause them to fall sideways. Once they tip over, the ramp will flip them in most cases without any adjustment (as long as you are staying within the same category of bullets, i.e., "pistol bullets"). When switching between .40, 38 SC and 9, I only adjust the location of the shims, I don't add/remove them, I don't touch the feed ramp. Here is the process:

 

1. Preparation: get a stepping stool so that you can be above the MBF and can manipulate the bullets in the collator. Loosen the shim screw a bit so that you can move it in/out, disconnect the switch terminals from the die and pull back the plastic protection. 
2. Step 1 - Determine how far *in* the shim can go without tipping the *right side up* bullets. Short the terminals so that collator starts moving, remove (or ignore) any upside down bullets and simply find a position where all your *rights side up* bullets "survive" crossing the shims. This is your inner point reference - you cannot go further in since you'll end up flipping incorrect bullets.
3. Step 2 - Determine how far *out* the shim can go and still tip *upside down bullets*. When shims are way in, no bullet will get flipped because there will be no lip. When shims are way out, no bullet will get flipped because the tip will go over the shim, not across the edge. You'll quickly find the range where the bullets tip, then as you move outwards, they will stop tipping again. Again, use bare connectors to get the collator going. 
4. Step 3 - Split the difference from steps 2 and 3 and call it "good." Run the collator and observe the bullets. If you see any "right side up" bullets getting tipped, the shim doesn't provide enough support on the base and must move a bit *out*. If you see any "upside down bullets" not getting tipped, the tip of the bullet is not catching enough of the edge and you have to move the shims slightly *in*.

There should be plenty of room between positions in steps 2 and 3, so you can get it to work reliably. Only if you cannot find such a position should you tinker with the thickness of the shims. The instructions talk about bullets sitting at a particular depth, but that's really not relevant - as long as the "right side up" bullets flow over the shims and the "upside down ones" are tipped to the side, you're done with the most difficult adjustment. 

 

Of course, if you switch to rifle bullets or some significantly different shape or length, you might have to adjust the flip ramp too. Just keep in mind that the "brains" of MBF happens when bullets cross the shims and where the discrimination happens. The rest, such as the actual flipping, is trivial.

 

 

 

 

Exactly.  I moved it down about .01" and it worked perfectly for my bullets.

[RangerTrace]

Well, I loaded a quick 500 rounds this after noon.  It was the first time on the press in a few months.  For some reason, the occasional double bullet drop is back, even though it was working perfectly the last time I used it.  It's not horrible, but I wish it worked correctly 100% of the time.

[ltdmstr]

Double drop is due to resistance in the dropper.  Try adjusting the collator angle/location so there's no tension on the spring tube.  Some people add rubber bands or weights to assist.

[clw42]

I found moving it closer to the front and cutting the spring down allowing for a straighter drop alleviates the angular tension issue as well and prevents double drops. 

[Rich406]

15 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

Double drop is due to resistance in the dropper.  Try adjusting the collator angle/location so there's no tension on the spring tube.  Some people add rubber bands or weights to assist.

 

X2, A rubber band solved all my problems with double drops.

[RangerTrace]

On 2/13/2020 at 10:19 AM, Rich406 said:

 

X2, A rubber band solved all my problems with double drops.

I thought the spring system I bought was Amorav was supposed to take care of the issue??

[slavex]

I recently had a bunch of double drops happening and I have two springs on mine to pull the dropper back into place. Took it apart and discovered it had some sort of media built up in it. I'm guessing tumbling media from the bullet manufacture that somehow made it down into the dropper

[RangerTrace]

2 hours ago, slavex said:

I recently had a bunch of double drops happening and I have two springs on mine to pull the dropper back into place. Took it apart and discovered it had some sort of media built up in it. I'm guessing tumbling media from the bullet manufacture that somehow made it down into the dropper

Good point.

[m700]

As far as bullets upside down you have to find the right mix of shims and adjusting the setting on the bf. It took me a bit but now i get 1 per 1000 or less.

 

As far as the double feed The only thing that can cause that is the die not dropping. I found that every 200 rounds or so I have to move the BF forward as it slowly walks backwards and pull side tension on the die that prevents it from dropping back down. I haven't had any issues with media in the dropper die but anything is possible.

[slavex]

I also had media up in the shims too, made for upside down bullets which usually causes double feeds too