kalaikanui Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Searched here and found no clues… Having a problem with loading 147’s; all 10 of my test specimens resulted in the cases being bulged at the bottom (kinda like a “Glock bulge”) and they won’t gage. Never experienced this while loading 124’s… Using a Dillon 650 with standard dies, I checked each piece of brass out of the de-cap/sizing step and all gage easily. Prime each and check powder drop… all good – reasonable bell at case mouth. Get to the seating… don’t see any issues and crimp comes out at .378. Mic out my OAL and its 1.15" as desired, but doh! They won’t plunck! I’m confident one of you will point me to a solution…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4n2t0 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) They probably won't plunk because they're too long (the coke bottle shape is normal with Dillon dies *see attached picture*). How did you determine the OAL? New bullet, new ogive, new OAL. Make a dummy round and keep shortening it until it plunks. Also, make sure your sizing die kisses the shellplate, do not back off the die. Edited November 12, 2019 by 4n2t0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalaikanui Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 Thanks, but I guess I need to be more specific... When I said "they won't plunk" I meant - they won't case gauge (I've already performed the barrel plunk exercise and verified desired OAL). I don't think this is an issue with sizing the brass, all the brass comes out of that step and fits a case gauge. The bulge is happening in the seating step - my best guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHI Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 is it a particular head stamp? do they drop in the barrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalaikanui Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 No particular head stamp (range brass) and they are too snug in the barrel (I usually don't even try the barrel if they won't go in the gage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHI Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 What bullets? Could be you are seating the bullets crocked . A mr Bullet feeder expander would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 try a little more flare to get the bullet to seat lower without pushing the casing down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12glocks Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) I have had a problem with coated bullets being to fat at the ogive to chamber correctly without being loaded shorter than I was comfortable with. Are they coated bullets? Edited November 12, 2019 by 12glocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slide4949 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 make sure your sizing the entire case . I set it where die touches shell plate then go another 1/4 turn so when you bring handle down you can fell it and have to push down just a little bit more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 First, determine exactly where they don't fit the gauge and chamber. Use a magic marker for the task, described here: https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/reloading-tips-the-plunk-test/99389 Then you'll know what needs to be addressed to fix the problem. Also, your barrel's chamber is the preferred 'gauge' for this task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock-N-Ruin Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 What's the diameter of the projectile you're using? Could they be a "hair" fat?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rishii Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 I ran into that years ago with 147’s, near as I could figure out not all cases are the same and some brands the bottom taper area was thicker and the longer 147’s would push out the case as it seated, creating a bulge on the bottom I remember dumping most of my brass and using federal and the problem went away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iflyskyhigh Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Don’t over think it or try and reinvent the wheel.For practice ammo or even match ammo with mixed brass you don’t need to waste a ton of time trying to isolate the problem. The problem 99% of the time time is the nature of mixed 9MM range brass. The solution:[emoji3596]Lee Factory Crimp Die. Solves 99% of issues with 9MM loading mixed range brass. And no it’s not a band-aid for poor technic or whatever else someone will surely say. 9MM and mixed range brass seems to be or CAN be a RPIA more so than other handgun cartridges. For whatever reason there seems to be more variance in brass from brand to brand and lot to lot of 9MM.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalaikanui Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) Thanks to all for the prompt replies.. Much appreciated. To answer all questions; the bullets I’m using are Berry’s 147 flat points that have a .356 diameter, the brass is sizing correctly – not an issue of the die and shell plate relationship. To “racerba’s” point, I did try to increase the flare before seating, but to no effect. I’m jumping on “iflyskyhigh’s” suggestion to get a Lee die right now as general set in the right direction and hopes that this fixes the issue. Edited November 12, 2019 by kalaikanui bullet weight correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iflyskyhigh Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Thanks to all for the prompt replies.. Much appreciated. To answer all questions; the bullets I’m using are Berry’s 147 flat points that have a .356 diameter, the brass is sizing correctly – not an issue of the die and shell plate relationship. To “racerba’s” point, I did try to increase the flare before seating, but to no effect. I’m jumping on “iflyskyhigh’s” suggestion to get a Lee die right now as general set in the right direction and hopes that this fixes the issue. I do think you will be happy with it. They are less than $20 on Amazon (I believe). If it’s not for you you aren’t out much, and if it’s solves your problem...$20 well spent. The Lee FCD size in two ways. It has a carbide ring the runs over the length of the case. Much like a normal sizing die. Just doesn’t squeeze the case and contents down quite as much as a normal sizing die would. It is oversized instead of undersized. That’s the part that should eliminate your issue. Then it also has a standard pistol taper crimp in the top. Just like any other taper crap, less is more. Just take the bell out. Don’t need much. Just screw it in till it kisses the shell plate plate. Lock it in. Screw the taper crimp all the way out. Run a case up into it. Screw the taper crimp down till it’s pretty good and hand tight. Back the case out a smidge. Give the taper crimp another tiny bit of down turn. Run the case back up and you should be good. For the first 20-30 rounds reach up and make sure the taper crimp is still snug with each new case. If you started off will a “bigger” case when you set it you might have to turn it in just a tiny bit more. It will obviously crimp the over sized cases just a touch much then, but if you have the crimp set light enough shouldn’t make a difference. Hope it works for you. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalaikanui Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 (under the "no question is stupid" umbrella) I want to make sure I understand; the Lee FCD would go into position 5 on a 650 correct? If so, do i need a better seating die in P4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalaikanui Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 Reading about a Redding Competition Seating die as it doesn't perform a crimp function, only seats the bullet, then maybe I'll have even greater appreciation for this Lee FCD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iflyskyhigh Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 (under the "no question is stupid" umbrella) I want to make sure I understand; the Lee FCD would go into position 5 on a 650 correct? If so, do i need a better seating die in P4?Yes sir. Position 5. Last thing.It’s my personal opinion of course, but I don’t believe you need a high end seating die for pistol stuff unless you are making Bullseye ammo.I have always just run the Lee seating dies on my 550 because that’s what came with the Lee die kits. I started off using Dillon dies, but found because of the radius on the Dillon dies mouth it wasn’t sizing the brass all the way down. Switched over to the Lee dies and that solved a good chuck of my problems. The FCD solves the rest.The radius on the mouth of the Dillon dies is supposed to make them more conducive to running in progressive presses. While the Lee dies don’t have the radius mouth and aren’t specifically designed for progressive press, I have never had an issue making ammo as fast as I can pull the handle.When I bought my 650, for all my pistol calibers, I went with the Lee undersize sizing die, Redding progressive seating die (in picture), and Lee factory crimp die. The only reason I went with the Redding die as opposed to the Lee is because I wasn’t buying the Lee whole kit. Midway USA had a good deal on the individual dies I wanted so it just worked out. The Lee and Redding die are designed and operate very similar to each other. I will say the Redding is a nicer built die, but honestly I can’t see any difference in the ammo produced.You might need think about ordering the Lee Deluxe 4 die 9MM kit. Lee pricing is weird. Can you get the whole 4 die kit for not all that much more than just buying it the FCD.Again, they are relatively inexpensive, so if you don’t like them, you aren’t out much. They are available on Amazon. Depending on where you live you could probably have them today.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iflyskyhigh Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Reading about a Redding Competition Seating die as it doesn't perform a crimp function, only seats the bullet, then maybe I'll have even greater appreciation for this Lee FCD.I believe that’s the seating die I have. It’s very cost effective (especially if you can find it on sale).Very happy with it.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4n2t0 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) I use a 650 with the same dies, bullets and brass which I load to a length of 1.09 (because of my CZ) without any issues (less than 1% rejection rate using a Hundo). You have a problem and instead of trying to figure it out your going to just mask it with a Lee FCD. Swage away friend, swage away! lol. Edited November 12, 2019 by 4n2t0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Hello: Could you have loaded some with the two piece brass like the old Extreme ones? I have never had a problem using the same Berry's bullet with the Dillon dies. What pistol are you using? Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furrly Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 try loading a few rounds shorter see what happens , my guess it is your bullet profile in conjunction with the type of gun you are loading for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12glocks Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Make sure you pull a couple of bullets after you get everything set up with the LEE FCD. This will illustrate the strength of the crimp, and more importantly, if you see what looks like a new cannulaure on the bullet, you will know the crimp is too much. This is fairly easy to do with plated bullets owing to the thin nature of the plating, at least it was for me . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iflyskyhigh Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 I use a 650 with the same dies, bullets and brass which I load to a length of 1.09 (because of my CZ) without any issues (less than 1% rejection rate using a Hundo). You have a problem and instead of trying to figure it out your going to just mask it with a Lee FCD. Swage away friend, swage away! lol. And there it is... He’s not wrong. But typical. No constructive advice. Just snarky sarcasm. Another issue you might have is that even though they plunk when testing, again due to the variations in 9MM brass, the test rounds you loaded up to plunk test worked, but because you are at the long end of what may work in your barrel for COAL, once you started loading many ended up just a touch longer than what you barrel will accept. You may need to shorten OAL by .005 to to .010”. Our Canuck friend is correct. That’s any easy place to start. But I still personally like the Lee FCD and stand by my advice. It works. It’s cost effective and I have found no down side to it when used correctly. Especially in 9MM mixed range brass. I’m sure you know this but when you start changing variables, only change one at a time and see what effect it has. I’m not one of those reloaded who say my way is the only way or the correct way. Take it or leave it. No skin off my back. Hope you figure it out. I know it can be frustrating. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iflyskyhigh Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Make sure you pull a couple of bullets after you get everything set up with the LEE FCD. This will illustrate the strength of the crimp, and more importantly, if you see what looks like a new cannulaure on the bullet, you will know the crimp is too much[emoji6]. This is fairly easy to do with plated bullets owing to the thin nature of the plating, at least it was for me . This is very good advice. As he said especially with plated bullets. Less is more. Doesn’t take much. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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