Mark7 Autodrive Price Drops!

[hurley326]

Not sure if anyone saw this but the Mark7 Autodrives got a price drop across the board for their 650 and 1050/1150 and Evolution Autodrive models. $1,994. I have been eying up their equipment for a while and keep going back and forth between one of their presses or just get a 1150 and automate it down the road. Holding out for a black Friday sale to see if the press price drops further.

 

https://www.markvii-loading.com/autodrives.html

[tanks]

One thing to consider is the Black Friday sale for sensors for sure. You need at the minimum swage and powder sensors, the rest are nice to have but not absolutely necessary.

[hurley326]

33 minutes ago, tanks said:

One thing to consider is the Black Friday sale for sensors for sure. You need at the minimum swage and powder sensors, the rest are nice to have but not absolutely necessary.

Tell me your rationale for each of these sensors. I’ve had various suggestions as to what sensors are “must haves”. I’m working with 2 650s now so I don’t have anything automated. I’m reloading mostly 9mm and 40. I am doing a little of 38sc but might keep one of my 650s to reload that for major matches. I shoot 223 but i haven’t loaded more than 100 rounds on that. Perhaps with automation I might do more of this.

I’ve heard so many different opinions on this and just trying to hear more rationale to help me make a decision. Thinking that I might be better served spending the money on caliber conversions rather than sensors. What do you think?
 

Here are some of my thoughts:

 

I assume the swage sense because if a primer or portion of a primer remains by the time it gets to the priming station it could ignite a primer? But then I’ve heard there is not a big deal at all if one primer ignited. Is this more needed for 223 only or if doing 9/40 as well? On my 650 I have had less than 10 primer “ringers” in over 25,000 rounds. I never run into crimped 9mm.

 

For the powder measure sensor, how often Is the powder drop not consistent or accurate?  This was one I thought would be needed maybe because powder spill concerns but then have heard the machine is so accurate because of all the adjustment to timing to make it so powder spill isn’t an issue.

 

About 3/4 of the response I get on Bullet Sense is that it’s needed but I can’t see why. With Jam Sense taking care of a sideways bullet made me think this isn’t really needed as long as you can set up your Bullet Feeder to drop right side up reliably. I’m getting less than 5 upside down per 500 and could likely fine tune it more.

 

Primer Orientation Sensor. I have had only maybe 1 per 1k upside down since I’m filling primer tubes on my own. Is there any issue with them getting flipped before priming? 
 

Decap Sensor. Wouldn’t swage sensor let you know if a primer was still in the case by time it got to swage station? I haven’t heard anyone recommend this.

 

i appreciate your insight!

 

 

 

 

[V2plus25]

The Swage Sense is a must have as is the Bullet Sense.

 

Loading .40 I have come across plenty of crimped primer pockets with the non-toxic brass (marked NT).  But the biggest advantage to the Swage Sense is to catch the occasional primer that is pulled back into the pocket by the decapper.

 

The Bullet Sense is good to catch those times when a bullet doesn't fall.  I have it happen once out of every 1000 rounds or so and I usually don't catch it in time.  Spilled powder in the bullet bin is always fun to clean up.

 

I guess the Evo/Revo has a way of attaching a primer sensor as well.  I'd love to have that on my 1050 to catch those times a primer fails to make it into the pocket.

Edited November 4, 2019 by V2plus25

[mikamarj]

52 minutes ago, hurley326 said:

I’ve heard so many different opinions on this and just trying to hear more rationale to help me make a decision. Thinking that I might be better served spending the money on caliber conversions rather than sensors. What do you think?

 

Once you start actually reloading automatically you will notice in no time that ALL the sensors are required for smooth operation. And you will also notice that you don't really need that many calibers.

 

52 minutes ago, hurley326 said:

I assume the swage sense because if a primer or portion of a primer remains by the time it gets to the priming station it could ignite a primer? But then I’ve heard there is not a big deal at all if one primer ignited. Is this more needed for 223 only or if doing 9/40 as well? On my 650 I have had less than 10 primer “ringers” in over 25,000 rounds. I never run into crimped 9mm.

 

I would recommend the swage sense. Accidentally igniting primers is not fun and it can be dangerous.

 

 

52 minutes ago, hurley326 said:

For the powder measure sensor, how often Is the powder drop not consistent or accurate?  This was one I thought would be needed maybe because powder spill concerns but then have heard the machine is so accurate because of all the adjustment to timing to make it so powder spill isn’t an issue.

 

s#!t happens. Last week friend of mine had his Evolution powder measure jam and that caused the machine to stop at powder check. Would not have been nice to notice that you have 500 rounds with potentially no powder in them...

 

52 minutes ago, hurley326 said:

About 3/4 of the response I get on Bullet Sense is that it’s needed but I can’t see why. With Jam Sense taking care of a sideways bullet made me think this isn’t really needed as long as you can set up your Bullet Feeder to drop right side up reliably. I’m getting less than 5 upside down per 500 and could likely fine tune it more.

 

I don't currently have bullet sense but that is coming. I have had multiple times the Mr Bulletfeeder bullet drop die somehow jam and while running automated press, it doesn't take long to have 50 "rounds" with no bullets in them... Mixed up with your lubed rounds...

 

52 minutes ago, hurley326 said:

Primer Orientation Sensor. I have had only maybe 1 per 1k upside down since I’m filling primer tubes on my own. Is there any issue with them getting flipped before priming? 

 

Primers don't flip in the machine.

Primer orientation sensor also stop the machine in case of indexing issues. Would recommend getting that also.

 

52 minutes ago, hurley326 said:

Decap Sensor. Wouldn’t swage sensor let you know if a primer was still in the case by time it got to swage station? I haven’t heard anyone recommend this.

 

Depends on your brass. I have had problems with e.g. Geco brass not being decapped right and clearing a decapping jam is much faster and safer than clearing swage sense jam.

[shred]

If you're going to be there nearby monitoring the press you need a lot less sensors (I watch it load every piece of my match ammo, catch each one and drop it straight into a Hundo gauge which fits nicely on the Dillon bins-- not so much for practice ammo).

 

If you want to walk away while it makes ammo, you want a bunch of sensors in case some tumbling media gets into your bullet dropper or you have a primer hang in the feed tube or that little white plastic square on your powder measure breaks or a willingness to throw out a lot of questionable ammo.

 

On a 1050 if you leave the factory swage rod in there and don't run high torque, it'll clutch-out on non-decapped primers and ringers.   Lighting off primers in one of those is not a good idea.  

 

The original decap sensor was an optical thing that got dirty fast and didn't work too well.  If they haven't updated it, I wouldn't bother with one.

 

[MikeBurgess]

I have a 1050 so my recommendation is based on that, if your automating a 650 skip the swage sense

 

#1 Bullet sense, as you said your MR bullet feeder in not 100% and it will keep going unless you stop it.

#2 Low Primer (I rewired the Dillon buzzer to act as a stop switch for cheep) nothing worse than running out of primers and it goes through them pretty fast.

#3 Swage sense, nobody wants to press a primer into a full primer pocket.

 

I think everything else is just a nice to have, there are not enough stations for a powder check and separate seat and crimp so I trust the mechanical powder measure to do its thing, the spent primer thing seems to be a cleaning issue that many end up turning off,

 

[hurley326]

8 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

I have a 1050 so my recommendation is based on that, if your automating a 650 skip the swage sense

 

#1 Bullet sense, as you said your MR bullet feeder in not 100% and it will keep going unless you stop it.

#2 Low Primer (I rewired the Dillon buzzer to act as a stop switch for cheep) nothing worse than running out of primers and it goes through them pretty fast.

#3 Swage sense, nobody wants to press a primer into a full primer pocket.

 

I think everything else is just a nice to have, there are not enough stations for a powder check and separate seat and crimp so I trust the mechanical powder measure to do its thing, the spent primer thing seems to be a cleaning issue that many end up turning off,

 

I should have clarified. I plan to get the Evolution or Revolution from Mark 7. I greatly appreciate the commentary this is helpful! Keep it coming!
 

I’ve never had Mr Bullet feeder not drop a round, just getting less than 1% that are sometimes upside down. These are not multiple upside down in a row, just 5 or less per 500-1000 rounds. I might try without this and order it down the road if I’m having issues. 
 

My plan was to only ever set the machine to load 100 rounds at time so I would be sure to keep the MBF and Casefeeder fully fed each time I needed to drop in another 100 primers. The round output stop feature appears to be a great solution to make sure you always have bullets, cases and primers fully stocked. I’d likely run it at a very slow and reliable output rate as I’m only looking to load 500-1000 maybe once ever 2 weeks. I would like the ability to walk away and check email or gun maintenance or dry fire but I would be in the same room as the machine.

 

I think you guys sold me on the powder measure because the only way to find out there was a problem there is when it’s too late at the range or during a match. At least if the bullets didn’t drop for some odd reason I would walk in to max 100 rounds in the output bin and could fix the issue before resuming. 

 

Question on powder sense... will it detect a complete “no charge” as in no powder dropped at all? Or is it only detecting slightly under or over? 

 
 

 

[hurley326]

35 minutes ago, shred said:

If you're going to be there nearby monitoring the press you need a lot less sensors (I watch it load every piece of my match ammo, catch each one and drop it straight into a Hundo gauge which fits nicely on the Dillon bins-- not so much for practice ammo).

 

If you want to walk away while it makes ammo, you want a bunch of sensors in case some tumbling media gets into your bullet dropper or you have a primer hang in the feed tube or that little white plastic square on your powder measure breaks or a willingness to throw out a lot of questionable ammo.

 

On a 1050 if you leave the factory swage rod in there and don't run high torque, it'll clutch-out on non-decapped primers and ringers.   Lighting off primers in one of those is not a good idea.  

 

The original decap sensor was an optical thing that got dirty fast and didn't work too well.  If they haven't updated it, I wouldn't bother with one.

 

 

Thanks! What minor spare parts do you suggest ordering to keep the press up and running due to minor breakages?

[chevrofreak]

Revolution looks about $2k cheaper now fully kitted out

[shred]

On 11/4/2019 at 9:34 AM, hurley326 said:

 

Thanks! What minor spare parts do you suggest ordering to keep the press up and running due to minor breakages?

 

Decap pins.  Lots of decap pins.

 

Spare powder measure parts-- bellcrank cube and connector body collar or just an extra powder measure.  Those take a while to break, but when they do it's always at the worst time and there's no good way to 'make do' unless you have facilities to fab up new ones on the spot.

 

[tanks]

On 11/4/2019 at 4:18 AM, hurley326 said:

Tell me your rationale for each of these sensors. I’ve had various suggestions as to what sensors are “must haves”. I’m working with 2 650s now so I don’t have anything automated. I’m reloading mostly 9mm and 40. I am doing a little of 38sc but might keep one of my 650s to reload that for major matches. I shoot 223 but i haven’t loaded more than 100 rounds on that. Perhaps with automation I might do more of this.

 

First, I have all the sensors as I'd rather resolve an issue as it occurs rather than in the aftermath.

 

The swage sensor is there to recognize a ringer. It might be an undecapped primer or a primer that has disintegrated and left a ring. The issue is it can cause a jam at the priming station (many minutes taking it apart and re-assembling if you have a collator) or you end up with a round with no primer spilling powder all over the place.

 

The powder sense is there to catch if there is an issue with the dispenser so it dispenses no powder also if you jog up or down after torque sense sometimes it skips dispensing powder when starting. This catches it if/when it occurs rather than single cycling a few times and going to the back of the press to check, again time saver and of course a safety check.

 

Also, having all the sensors means I can pay less attention and utilize my time dry firing in 5 minute increments, then stop dump bullets/primers and dry fire for 5 more minutes while the press keeps going  

[Kema]

Not happening in Europe  

[Laxman2809]

Keep in mind that you can also run some of the ammobot sensors with their mtac converter.

 

[hurley326]

Just an update. I ended up ordering the swage sensor, bullet sensor and powder sensor. I can now vouch that the bullet sensor and powder sensor are MUST HAVES.

I’ve been reloading mostly brand new 38sc brass so I haven’t really needed the swage sensor but I am still not sold on it being a must have. The internal torque sensor can be set to activate should you have a primer that is stuck in there. I’m not ruling it out as I have only loaded about 1,000 one fired 9mm but for my reloading needs, I don’t think it’s mandatory as of now.


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[slavex]

how will the torque sensor detect a stuck primer?

[hurley326]

42 minutes ago, slavex said:

how will the torque sensor detect a stuck primer?

There is upward pressure on the shell plate that slows the the completion of that pass and specifically it shows “digital clutch activated”. The same way if there was a bullet that was sideways or a case that was getting stuck on the edge of the sizing die, once anything slows down the advance of the movement, digital clutch is activated.

The reason I know this is because I have the swage sensor but had issues with getting it to activate due to a bad connector cable. So I’ve had it installed but unplugged for the last 2 months. They finally were able to trouble shoot it and get me a new cable so it works now, but in trying to figure it out I put rounds with unspent primers in the swage station to purposely rip the swage sensor but instead would get “digital clutch activated”. We now are aware this was because the cable wasn’t working. 

[slavex]

the torque sensor detects when the shellplate won't index due to something getting stuck, the clutch sensor can detect something stopping the toolhead from completing it's downstroke, but I've not found primers in a case at the swage station would trip that, they'd just crushed by the swage, and that was on a zero clutch setting on both my machines. 

[hurley326]

45 minutes ago, slavex said:

the torque sensor detects when the shellplate won't index due to something getting stuck, the clutch sensor can detect something stopping the toolhead from completing it's downstroke, but I've not found primers in a case at the swage station would trip that, they'd just crushed by the swage, and that was on a zero clutch setting on both my machines. 

Well it happened to me and was replicated many many times. In setting up the swage sensor I purposely put a case with primer here to trigger the sensor and didn’t know why it kept alerting digital clutch rather than “ringer detected”. Continued to do this even with the swage sensor unplugged so I called mk7 and Misty helped me identify the problem. I now have a new cable and it works as it was intended.

[DJRyan13]

Odd...

[hurley326]

Odd...

?


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[DJRyan13]

Just odd it was cable doing that

[Kema]

Still not dropped in Europe. 

[slavex]

the only time I've had the clutch kick in for stuff is when cases don't feed right into the shellplate, there is debris in the case and the decapping rod contacts it, or, and this is my favorite, when the decapping pin came loose on my MA die and started trying to open the flash hole up a ton due to it hitting the taper on the pin. 

[Cuz]

Does 2 pass reloading eliminate the need for the swage sensor?

 

on the first pass to process 9mm brass, I will have an FW Arms Popper decapper in station 2, and then a Lee sizing/decapping die in stage 6, and a Dillon size/decapping die in station 7. 
 

Thats 3 decapping attempts for each case, not to mention that when I actually load the ammo I’ll have a Dillon size/decap die in station 2. 
 

Heck I may even add a Lee undersize die to the last station on the processing run if I think it’s needed. 
 

These sensors significantly add to the cost. I think I’ll start slow and watch everything. I’m not really trying to get more speed than I can load by hand cranking, I’m just trying to save my arm from having to do all the cranking. 

The remote stop button is about the only extra I think may be essential as it’s faster than trying to hit the stop button on the tablet when you don’t have any depth perception…