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33 minutes ago, kellyn said:

I understand that.  I like the classic target for the shooting challenge but I agree as to its PC qualities.  That being said many (most?) IPSC countries are stuck with such target presentations.

It's a bit annoying that the newer target is the "classic" where the older is not. 

 

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On 11/4/2019 at 6:55 PM, StealthyBlagga said:

 

It's all about the up-front match design - once the first shot is fired, the die is cast:

  • Design and build the match in advance using a dedicated crew - don't ask the shooters to setup or their asses will be dragging before their first stage. We setup the afternoon of the previous day. If you can partner with another match before or after, you can greatly reduce everyone's workload.
  • Limit the number of stages, but make them really interesting. If your paradigm is 6-8 stages, you are going to be phoning-in at least a couple of those designs, everyone can expect to be there all day, and the number of shooters you can push through will be limited. At the end of that day, everyone will be dead on their feet and not looking forward to the next match. Sometimes less is more - our monthly is a 4-stage affair, but our goal is for all four of those stages to be great and for folks to be counting the days to the next month.
  • Accept that EVERY stage does not have to involve all three guns (or even a gun transition). Making ready with 2 or 3 guns and then clearing them afterwards absolutely kills the schedule. Typically only one or two stages at our monthly matches will have a gun transition (the others will be one-gun stages). If we have a 3-gun stage, we follow it with a quicker stage so any delay is absorbed in the total match schedule. We also preload shotguns to save time.
  • Use self-resetting targets as much as possible. Unlike USPSA, outlaw MDs can use whatever targets we want. Ringing steel is a staple - we hang them on firehose or rebar stands and they work awesome. Engaging the self-resetters from multiple locations lets you create an enjoyable shooting challenge without a lot of reset work.
  • Limit the round count - think quality over quantity. Sometimes the temptation is to jazz-up boring stage designs with uber-high round counts. Higher round counts mean more time shooting, more time resetting and more money spent on ammo, but seldom mean more fun.
  • Squad sizes need to be manageable. Bigger squads mean too much standing around, smaller squads mean not enough resetters. We settle on 4 x 13 person squads for our monthly multigun matches, and we run 2 relays (7:00am-10:30am and then 10:30am-2:00pm) for a total of 104 shooters. Each shooter is in and out inside 4 hours.
  • Populate each squad with a couple of experienced RO butt-kickers who ensure resetting is done efficiently and safely, and shared equitably. If you want a bigger/multigun stage, design it with defined shooting areas progressively further downrange from one another so guns can be cleared and targets reset behind the shooter (of course, some common sense is needed with gun clearing as regards placement and who does the clearing). 

I hope this makes sense. Feel free to post additional questions.

 

Love this post!  This has been my methodology the past few years and our attendance has gone up every year!  It's tough to get a group of faithful RO's but our club has a great backbone of dedicated folks supporting the shooting sports events we run.  Adding UML this past season really spiced things up in a positive way as I've never had my matches run so fast and had so many competitors tell me how much fun they had as when I adopted this new mindset.  

 

At the major match level I think there's such a thing as too many big matches.  We're hitting up many of the same key sponsors and people have so many options to shoot a "major" match that they're less enticed to travel across the country.  

 

I also wonder if the loss of having the old 3GN pro series on TV generating excitement has impacted the sport.  I know there are plenty of ways to watch videos but to me it just doesn't feel the same as the excitement I had watching all the pros going head-to-head under the lights.  Has anyone else observed folks feeling this way? 

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Two other thoughts that I'd like to test out with the group of folks that have actually been shooting 3-gun for several years. 

 

First, I'd like to be clear, I absolutely love the comradery in 3-gun and IMHO it is often better than other options out there.  However, this thread is about trying to figure out why there's a decline so I want to test the waters and see what folks think.

 

Has anyone noticed an uptick in folks that have taken gaming stages and arguing with RO's to a whole new level?  I've experienced a bit of a new mindset this year of folks that are pushing to be the next top gun... trying to establish a social media footprint... trying to get a jersey... etc. and in the meantime a little less fun is being had between that crowd and the folks busting their butt to work matches, do the setup, run the timer and take scores. 

 

Another thought that I've had relates to the true struggle in our sport to get enough people to support your events and make them viable.  Now add on top of that the folks that come late, don't help much, argue more and leave early while the rest bust their hump for the match.   

 

Has anyone noticed a shift in the crowd of shooters where either of these things are becoming prevalent?  If so, I wonder if this is also a cause for driving down popularity where the good folks get burned out while the remaining crowd is taking an approach like this.

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7 hours ago, kellyn said:

I understand that.  I like the classic target for the shooting challenge but I agree as to its PC qualities.  That being said many (most?) IPSC countries are stuck with such target presentations.

I like the IPSC target. Here, in gun-controlled Finland, IDPA is using IDPA targets - and the military reservists' sorta-3-gun is using USPSA style targets with no issues.

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I don’t come around here much anymore.  The atmosphere of the forum, much like the sport (3 gun) has just gone in a different direction. I do peek at the topics every few months and noticed this one that struck me as the first one I have noticed worth commenting on in a while.  Back in the day I started with USPSA, then got into 3 gun and abandoned USPSA for anything other than pistol practice for 3 gun, I have shot a few matches over the years, I have Set stages, I have served as an RO, I have done set up, tear down, shot tactical rifle matches (pre-PRS), shot PRS, watched the rise of 3 gun nation, DQed at a major match, and DQed others.  The zenith of 3 gun was right after 3 gun nation got started, from there it started a slow but steady decline that bottomed out last season. 

 

I feel there are many reasons for the decline, but here are what I see as the big 3.  The stages at many matches where just not as much fun to shoot, 3 gun is expensive, not just in money, but more importantly time, lastly the bulk of the participants are getting old and broke Dick.  

 

Fortunatley there are still a few guys left willing to put on a good match for me to limp around at.  USPSA guys will always find fault with 3 gun, as far as they are concerned all shooting sports worship at the feet of the USPSA, and some will blame the shotgun, but shotgun is only a barrier to those that are not in the sport already, the decline has to come from those that where already in the sport, not just a lack of new shooters.

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9 hours ago, Stlhead said:

 The atmosphere of the forum, much like the sport (3 gun) has just gone in a different direction.

 

 The stages at many matches where just not as much fun to shoot, 

Care to further expound on these points?

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