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Wiseguy724

Honcho vs Nemesis Limited only

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Still continuing to my research into jumping from the Tanfoglio into the 2011 world. Looking for feedback from people here have in fact held and preferably shot both the honcho and nemesis in 40 major. These are my 2 choices. I know the race ready honcho is unparalleled in terms of value but I really don't see myself getting into open, or this instance let's just assume it will stay in limited config.

 

Configured to my liking the limited only setup of the honcho is $1450 cheaper. I really dig the nemesis though, and both seem to be liked by many shooters. Is one softer/flatter than the other? Is the extra price justified? Fit and finish equal? What else do I need to know? Superficially I like the looks of the Atlas more, but I would hate to make a call on something like that alone.

 

I do fairly well, but i'm a pretty thin guy so if I could find something heavier, flatter shooting, and with a slightly longer sight radius than my Tanfo, that would be the primary justification for swapping over. If you feel that these concerns alone are not worth the price of switching platforms that is a valid response and please go ahead and post up, I'm not opposed to just keeping what I have.

 

I know the best answer is go and try both. I haven't seen anyone who has either of these, so I don't see myself getting the chance to shoot either of them. I will definitely ask someone if I do come across one in the wild, but for now I'm operating under the assumption that I will not be able to shoot either prior to purchase.

 

Or maybe save the money and just keep shooting the beautiful Tanfoglio? Video attached of me shooting for a baseline

 

 

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Still continuing to my research into jumping from the Tanfoglio into the 2011 world. Looking for feedback from people here have in fact held and preferably shot both the honcho and nemesis in 40 major. These are my 2 choices. I know the race ready honcho is unparalleled in terms of value but I really don't see myself getting into open, or this instance let's just assume it will stay in limited config.
 
Configured to my liking the limited only setup of the honcho is $1450 cheaper. I really dig the nemesis though, and both seem to be liked by many shooters. Is one softer/flatter than the other? Is the extra price justified? Fit and finish equal? What else do I need to know? Superficially I like the looks of the Atlas more, but I would hate to make a call on something like that alone.
 
I do fairly well, but i'm a pretty thin guy so if I could find something heavier, flatter shooting, and with a slightly longer sight radius than my Tanfo, that would be the primary justification for swapping over. If you feel that these concerns alone are not worth the price of switching platforms that is a valid response and please go ahead and post up, I'm not opposed to just keeping what I have.
 
I know the best answer is go and try both. I haven't seen anyone who has either of these, so I don't see myself getting the chance to shoot either of them. I will definitely ask someone if I do come across one in the wild, but for now I'm operating under the assumption that I will not be able to shoot either prior to purchase.
 
Or maybe save the money and just keep shooting the beautiful Tanfoglio? Video attached of me shooting for a baseline
 
 
definitely try both and see how they feel in your hands. FWIW, I think you're shooting that tanfo well and should just keep grinding and getting better

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At the Rowan match there is a lot of custom Limited guns there.  I don’t know of any Honchos or Nemesis, but I’m sure any one of the shooters would let you check out the one they do have on their hip.

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I love my Atlas Titan and the Honcho looks very interesting but if you not in any huge hurry, Dan Wesson has a new gun coming for 2020, the DWX. 1911 style trigger and safeties but built like a CZ Shadow 2. MSRP is less than $2,000. It uses CZ P09 mags so they will be reasonably priced. You will be able to buy 2 DWX’s for what one Atlas or PT gun will cost. Looks very interesting! Just a thought.


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I'm in the same boat as the OP except I already bought an Atlas Titan and have been working on making the switch from a TS/TSO in Limited and a Czechmate in Open for the past several years.  

 

I'm 2 matches, many dryfire sessions and about $3500 into this experiment.  I"m really starting to wonder if it is worth it.  I really want to like it but the switch is going to take more work than I anticipated.

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1 hour ago, aandabooks said:

I"m really starting to wonder if it is worth it.  I really want to like it but the switch is going to take more work than I anticipated.

 

I hear ya.  We both made the same move a while ago.  You went exclusively to CZ and I went to 1911/2011.  I still have my race CZ TS, but I don't shoot it much.  It is just too hard to go back and forth.  Even though I love the gun, I'm starting to seriously consider selling it.  I'll say that I shot my buddy's Czeckmate.  It's a nice gun for the money, but not as nice as a 2011 Open gun.  Even he decided that and bought a 2011.  He also likes it better.

 

I shot my TS in Limited and honestly believe it superior to a 2011 Limited gun.  Open is the opposite.  I put a dovetail mounted dot on the TS and shot it for two years in SCSA Open.  I did fine with it, as long as I dry fired a lot the week before.  The problem I ran into was having an 8-stage SCSA match on Sat and a USPSA match on Sun.  For the USPSA match I was playing find the dot for the first couple stages.  This year I shot the 2011 Open for both and scores in both matches improved.

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I know its probably not what you want to hear but if you are doing ok with the current set up, Stick with that. I will also say this about the whole thing: when you take a random sampling of the top 50 shooters at a area or nats, I would place my money on 90% of them being 2011s. So there is something to be said for that. 

 

Haven't heard or seen many Honcho, do know a guy that Atlas front sight flew off the gun at nats, Atlas refused to stake the front sight in; but lock tighted it and sent it back to him. Not sure I really dig that response but I also dont own one and am not a gunsmith so. Other thing I heard is that the Atlast is basically a bunch of PT parts put together with a atlas logo on them. Cannot confirm or deny that. 

 

 

 

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I build my own guns, so I have a different take.  If there is a reasonable chance yo will get into Open, get the Honcho.  If you are going to stay in Limited, I'd buy neither.

 

For under $1100 you can buy a Warwick Tactical short block with perfectly fitted tri-topped slide, frame and Barsto barrel.  Buy the grip of your choice and give it to any competent gunsmith to fit EGW or Extreme Engineering internals.  Now you have a full custom gun for a lot less than the other two.  Geez, several custom gunsmiths use Warwick's short block as the basis for their builds.

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I know its probably not what you want to hear but if you are doing ok with the current set up, Stick with that. I will also say this about the whole thing: when you take a random sampling of the top 50 shooters at a area or nats, I would place my money on 90% of them being 2011s. So there is something to be said for that. 
 
Haven't heard or seen many Honcho, do know a guy that Atlas front sight flew off the gun at nats, Atlas refused to stake the front sight in; but lock tighted it and sent it back to him. Not sure I really dig that response but I also dont own one and am not a gunsmith so. Other thing I heard is that the Atlast is basically a bunch of PT parts put together with a atlas logo on them. Cannot confirm or deny that. 
 
 
 
yes they use pt frame and grip. they were using other parts as well but are now making many in house

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I’ve never handled a HONCHO but I own a nemesis. I’m very happy with it all around, including the service I get from Atlas. It’s very flat and soft shooting, excellent return to zero, isn’t picky with ammo, and has great weight. It’s got a fairly unique look as well which I appreciate. 
 

the service from atlas has been spot on. I’ve had two issues and both were fixed immediately and covered by them. I have another very high end 2011 that doesn’t get the same love from its builder. I would recommend atlas to anyone 

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Here is an idea.......... Line up some time to travel to each of these gun manufactures to test drive the guns you are looking at buying and get all of the information directly from the manufacture. If you are willing to spend $3K - $6K on a single gun, a weekend trip to go check out the gun before buying it seems like an inexpensive option to guarantee that you are getting exactly what you need or want. 

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4 hours ago, Dutchman195 said:

I know its probably not what you want to hear but if you are doing ok with the current set up, Stick with that. I will also say this about the whole thing: when you take a random sampling of the top 50 shooters at a area or nats, I would place my money on 90% of them being 2011s. So there is something to be said for that. 

 

Haven't heard or seen many Honcho, do know a guy that Atlas front sight flew off the gun at nats, Atlas refused to stake the front sight in; but lock tighted it and sent it back to him. Not sure I really dig that response but I also dont own one and am not a gunsmith so. Other thing I heard is that the Atlast is basically a bunch of PT parts put together with a atlas logo on them. Cannot confirm or deny that. 

 

 

 

That is not necessarily not what I want to hear, It's not that I dislike my current gun, just putting feelers out. That fact that you mentioned that most top competitors wind up with 2011's is something that entered my mind and helped start this interest.

 

Thank you all for the replies, any more input is appreciated.

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2 hours ago, Wiseguy724 said:

That is not necessarily not what I want to hear, It's not that I dislike my current gun, just putting feelers out. That fact that you mentioned that most top competitors wind up with 2011's is something that entered my mind and helped start this interest.

 

Thank you all for the replies, any more input is appreciated.

 

The whole top shooters end up with 2011s might be a valid point.  Just switching to a 2011 is not going to make you all the sudden a better shooter.  If you are like me, you'll take a step backwards while you are working to learn the new platform.  

 

As a counterpoint to the top shooter arguement.  Consider Ben Stoeger who takes a Tanfo to second place in Limited which is not a gun that he shoots as his primary in a division that he only messes around in and is not his serious focus.  Not the gun but the shooter.

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6 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

Here is an idea.......... Line up some time to travel to each of these gun manufactures to test drive the guns you are looking at buying and get all of the information directly from the manufacture. If you are willing to spend $3K - $6K on a single gun, a weekend trip to go check out the gun before buying it seems like an inexpensive option to guarantee that you are getting exactly what you need or want. 

Sounds just as expensive as buying the gun! Lol

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4 hours ago, nikdanja said:

Sounds just as expensive as buying the gun! Lol


How is that? Airline flights are cheap, same with rental cars and hotels. Combine the trip with a local club match or bring the wife along to make it a mini vacation. You are in the trip maybe $500 which is cheap insurance to guarantee the custom 2011 you are going to spend a good chunk of change on is EXACTLY what you want it to be.

Edited by CHA-LEE

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I also forgot to include this but it's worth mentioning; I have just started shooting again this September after taking a break for over 3 years, so I figured now is a good time to transition as well since I'm all out of shape on any platform.

 

Good arguments for all sides though. I'll have to reach out to these brands to see if they can even facilitate something like you suggested, and look into the cost. they are on opposite sides of the country and I'll be out $1000 or more after all is said and done most likely.

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2 hours ago, Wiseguy724 said:

I'll be out $1000 or more after all is said and done most likely.

 

So spend that $1000 on a Warwick Tactical Short Block and give it to a gunsmith to fit the internals.  You will spend less money overall and get a custom gun.

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4 hours ago, zzt said:

 

So spend that $1000 on a Warwick Tactical Short Block and give it to a gunsmith to fit the internals.  You will spend less money overall and get a custom gun.

 

Honcho is 3200 ready to go.

 

I looked at that kit and to build it similar to a honcho parts alone would run me 2500 or more, b/c im sure there are a few I forgot. I'll have to try and find a gunsmith nearby that understands competition work, as I have done all my own work. I don't think there will be that much savings by going with warwick. Thanks for the idea though.

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+1 for atlas. All you have to do is call them and they will answer any questions you have.

 

JJ borrowed a nemesis from his student in 2018 and won lim nats with it.

Pretty cool stuff

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8 hours ago, Wiseguy724 said:

I don't think there will be that much savings by going with warwick. Thanks for the idea though.

 

You'll save at least the $1000 you were planning on airfare, etc.  I've never handled a Honcho, but I have handled several of Atlas' guns.  The both use Evo grips, so that is the same.  If it were me and I decided not to build my own, I'd go Honcho.  Why?  I like the design and I can convert it to something else in the future, easily.

Edited by zzt

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I’d go honcho. Way more bang for your buck. Also I feel like since they are making all the parts in house they would pay more attention to detail and tolerances. 

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11 hours ago, zzt said:

 

You'll save at least the $1000 you were planning on airfare, etc.  I've never handled a Honcho, but I have handled several of Atlas' guns.  The both use Evo grips, so that is the same.  If it were me and I decided not to build my own, I'd go Honcho.  Why?  I like the design and I can convert it to something else in the future, easily.

 

Agreed on saving the airfare part, but in all honesty I'm not sure if I would even have been able to make that happen. 4 guns in one box is very tempting for essentially the same OTD price of the Nemesis.

 

Thanks again all for the input, tough choice to make, with no answer really being wrong.

 

On 10/31/2019 at 8:01 AM, jc3257 said:

I love my Atlas Titan and the Honcho looks very interesting but if you not in any huge hurry, Dan Wesson has a new gun coming for 2020, the DWX. 1911 style trigger and safeties but built like a CZ Shadow 2. MSRP is less than $2,000. It uses CZ P09 mags so they will be reasonably priced. You will be able to buy 2 DWX’s for what one Atlas or PT gun will cost. Looks very interesting! Just a thought.


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That DWX looks very sweet. Thanks for pointing it out, will have to get my hands on one someday.

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I’ve handled both. If you’re shooting only limited, Atlas Nemesis. If you may shoot something else in the future then the Honcho. 

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On 10/31/2019 at 12:24 PM, CHA-LEE said:

Here is an idea.......... Line up some time to travel to each of these gun manufactures to test drive the guns you are looking at buying and get all of the information directly from the manufacture. If you are willing to spend $3K - $6K on a single gun, a weekend trip to go check out the gun before buying it seems like an inexpensive option to guarantee that you are getting exactly what you need or want. 

Don’t you know people want to be told what to do in a gun forum?  Who wants to figure it out for themselves?!  

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