Classifiers for Level II Matches

[B_RAD]

I’ve been wondering why the folks who are “class win is lame” take that point of view.  
 

a quick look at the results have made it clear.  
 

 

 

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, B_RAD said:

I’ve been wondering why the folks who are “class win is lame” take that point of view.  
 

a quick look at the results have made it clear.  
 

 

Not sure what your're trying to say, but I have that point of view because I measure myself based on percentage of the overall winner and don't really care about only beating the other people who also didn't work hard enough to improve more. To me, it just seems like a mentality of staying in a small pond so as to be a big fish. I think it would get in the way of my quest to improve.

 

'winning' my class is far less important than improving my divison overall placing and percentage of the winner at an area match. 

 

OTOH, don't really care what other people need to tell themselves. Different strokes. Some dudes are into fat chicks.

Edited October 31, 2019 by motosapiens

[Racinready300ex]

If you think people wont stay a lower class for a $6 plaque you should go shoot IDPA. Standard practice is match bump then switch divisions. Repeat for all divisions and classifications.

 

I decided to shoot the IDPA "Worlds" this year in a division I was EX in. A lot of guys thought I was crazy for going out and shooting a classifier to get bumped to MA right before the match. Just think, I could of won high EX I would of felt like I was sandbagging and that's lame.

[Racinready300ex]

How you do against the overall winner isn't a great way to measure improvement. That makes you improvement based in part on someone else's performance, not just yours.

[B_RAD]

It seems that people that are having a hard time winning their class are more in the “percentage of HOA is what matters” crowd. It’s like it an ego protection thing. Being 20th B class is hard to look at but 80th over all doesn’t sting as much I guess?
 

Saying that, I want to win HOA but at most matches I feel I’m in the running to do that. So,...that’s a little different. 
 

As for the class win aspect, I think it’s a good thing for someone to get a class win when we’re talking about A class and below. Might actually see some improvement when you focus on performing to your class/skill

level. I mean 30th place in X class at a major might mean someone isn’t really that class level. Dunno?
 

M/GM’s should focus on HOA. That’s just my opinion and I try not to tell folks who win B class, that they’re dumb for being excited about that.  Again,... just my opinion.  
 

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by B_RAD

[PatJones]

Can one person be pissed off about sandbagging and grandbagging at the same time?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, B_RAD said:

It seems that people that are having a hard time winning their class are more in the “percentage of HOA is what matters” crowd. It’s like it an ego protection thing. Being 20th B class is hard to look at but 80th over all doesn’t sting as much I guess?
 

 

 

hmm. i guess that's not me. I threw out a crap ton of class 'win' plaques. Even some M class plaques got tossed this year. I think 6th overall is better than 3rd M, and I think 20th out of 100 overall is way way better than 1st B, although I do think it's perfectly legit to be excited about 1st B once or twice, when it is still hopefully a sign of improvement rather than an incentive to not try harder.

 

But that's just me. I only pay attention to what other people think on this topic so I can argue on the internet.

Edited October 31, 2019 by motosapiens

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:

How you do against the overall winner isn't a great way to measure improvement. That makes you improvement based in part on someone else's performance, not just yours.

 

In a big match, the overall winner is going to be a pretty consistently high  level, and imho is probably the most consistent measuring stick in a division with any heat.

[Racinready300ex]

8 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

In a big match, the overall winner is going to be a pretty consistently high  level, and imho is probably the most consistent measuring stick in a division with any heat.

 

Not always, as a example if you're shooting CO and Max misses his flight suddenly your % goes up.

 

I was at a Area match and watched the winner fall down twice during the match. Probably not his best performance but he still won and everyone else's % was based on what he did that day. It's also possible everyone just got better that day too. I don't know.

[motosapiens]

5 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Not always, as a example if you're shooting CO and Max misses his flight suddenly your % goes up.

 

I was at a Area match and watched the winner fall down twice during the match. Probably not his best performance but he still won and everyone else's % was based on what he did that day. It's also possible everyone just got better that day too. I don't know.

that's why I said "division with any heat". 

 

You can also double-check by comparing against individuals from other matches and even other years. Obviously, some will have some kind of problem from time to time and skew the numbers, but those are usually pretty easy to recognize.

 

Nonetheless, it doesn't bother me at all if you have found some metric you prefer.

[B_RAD]

32 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

hmm. i guess that's not me. I threw out a crap ton of class 'win' plaques. Even some M class plaques got tossed this year. I think 6th overall is better than 3rd M, and I think 20th out of 100 overall is way way better than 1st B, although I do think it's perfectly legit to be excited about 1st B once or twice, when it is still hopefully a sign of improvement rather than an incentive to not try harder.

 

But that's just me. I only pay attention to what other people think on this topic so I can argue on the internet.

I agree 6th overall is better than 3rd M. 
 

One of the joys of discussion over text media is we’re probably not that far off on what we’re actually saying and in some cases might be arguing the same points. I suck at communicating in person so over the internet in a gun forum it’s all but impossible. 
 

In a final attempt to get my points across I’ll list them as simply as I possibly can. 
 

Sandbagging is lame

grand bagging is too!

 

class wins are important at/below A(generally) for a method to gauge improvement or reward for effort. My opinion 

I want shoot to my abilities and get better. Doing that, the results will take care of themselves. 

 

I don’t want to knock anyone trying to get better. 

 

some like wining their class and they’re not wrong because you think so. 

 

Of course there’s certain things that may make those more or less important. Can’t communicate them all in this type of environment. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by B_RAD

[motosapiens]

2 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

I agree 6th overall is better than 3rd M. 
 

One of the joys of discussion over text media is we’re probably not that far off on what we’re actually saying and in some cases might be arguing the same points. I suck at communicating in person so over the internet in a gun forum it’s all but impossible. 
 

In a final attempt to get my points across I’ll list them as simply as I possibly can. 
 

Sandbagging is lame

grand bagging is too!

 

class wins are important at/below A(generally) for a method to gauge improvement or reward for effort. 

I want shoot to my abilities and get better

 

I don’t want to knock anyone trying to get better. The results will play that out. 

 

some like wining their class and they’re not wrong because you think so. 

 

Of course there’s certain things that may make those more or less important. Can’t communicate them all in this type of environment. 

 

Group hug!  I knew we could find mostly common ground.

 

For sure, people aren't necessarily 'wrong' just because I make fun of them, but that doesn't mean I'm going to stop. Especially if they shoot pcc. 

[theWacoKid]

50 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

Not always, as a example if you're shooting CO and Max misses his flight suddenly your % goes up.

 

I was at a Area match and watched the winner fall down twice during the match. Probably not his best performance but he still won and everyone else's % was based on what he did that day. It's also possible everyone just got better that day too. I don't know.

 

You know the beauty about that benchmark though?  You tend to know its validity intrinsically.  Exactly by way of the items you stated above.  Can you really say that about any other benchmark?

[Thomas H]

On 10/31/2019 at 10:21 AM, Rnlinebacker said:

 

Oh gosh still fake outraging about seeking your vindication of success via class wins I see. If your match percentages are not improving over time than your class wins are useless especially if the pool of competitors is lowly to begin with especially at the top. The goal is always to improve one's total match percentage and IF that ends up winning you something, good. The opposite is not as true. There should be an oversight committee made to police sandbagging let me know how it works out

 

Again with making up something and then basing your reactions on the things you've made up.  Do you normally react to people based on your hallucinations?

 

"If your match percentages are not improving over time than your class wins are useless especially if the pool of competitors is lowly to begin with especially at the top."

As RacinReady300ex said:

Quote

How you do against the overall winner isn't a great way to measure improvement. That makes you improvement based in part on someone else's performance, not just yours.

 

As such, match percentages over time only really tell you about improvement if you are comparing to the same people ever time.  Comparing a match performance at Area 1 to Area 7 won't really tell you much unless the same high-overall-guy is there.  (Which this year, would obviously work out in Open, but not much else.)

 

It is true that over long periods of time, you can compare match scores, and watching improvement is able to occur.  But plenty of people don't actually shoot lots of majors.

 

"The goal is always to improve one's total match percentage and IF that ends up winning you something, good. "

 

I agree other than "total match percentage" and substitute "your shooting and competition skills".  That isn't the topic, though.

 

Overall, I like what B_Rad said:

Quote

Sandbagging is lame

grand bagging is too!

 

class wins are important at/below A(generally) for a method to gauge improvement or reward for effort. My opinion 

I want shoot to my abilities and get better. Doing that, the results will take care of themselves. 

 

I don’t want to knock anyone trying to get better. 

 

some like wining their class and they’re not wrong because you think so.