Strong Point Range Cancels USPSA matches for rest of the year

[2Alphamikenoshoot]

So one of the local ranges we have on the monthly match rotation canceled its matches for the rest of the year. Its unfortunate since they just had Georgia State there. I contacted them to pitch them some ideas to keep it going. Looks like they didnt want to use up bays otherwise members could use, and were having difficulty getting people to set up. 

One thing another local range was doing to help drive set-up was charging an additional 5$ dollars over the regular match fee (so now 25$). Taking that 5 bucks off the top and paying those that helped set up with additional match fee. 

Has anyone else seen anything else that might be beneficial in helping a range keep a match? Any ideas would be appreciated. 

[gnoyesiv]

Some of the ranges around here have made setup and take down a mandatory activity. setup in the morning before the match and if you leave before take down you get a warning then if it happens again asked not to come to the next, and on the 3rd time you are asked to stay away. some people didn't like it and only a few have not come back, but it has definitely helped those that organize the matches.

[Joe4d]

Some times this is a double edge sword. 
Directors have a case of oneguyitis and no leadership skills or ability to delegate.
So said shooters show up early to help, only to find no direction , no info, and only one person who knows whats going on . Shooters end up standing around hurry up and waiting.
This usually becomes the match with staffs complaining about no help. As folks dont like having their time wasted.
Compared to an organized MD, with good drawings and prop lists posted at each stage, so pretty much anyone  that shows up can start grabbing stuff or rough setting up.
Tear down again is a system of organization,  each squad busts down their last stage, sets it at back of bay with the materials seperated into like piles,, someone comes by with truck or trailer and picks it up. Shouldnt be that complicated.

Honestly if you are having to threaten and punish people over tear down, I suspect your tear down procedure is a hot mess.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Wow, Joe4D, that is great stuff.   It's not universal by any means, but I've seen it over and over again.

 

Dedicated guy digs right in with tremendous enthusiasm and dedication and puts together great

matches for a year or two, and then is burned out, and quits.  Just did not have the leadership skills

to get the kind of help he needed.  No way to teach it - you got it or you don't.

 

I am not that kind of guy that can lead a parade of helpers, so I recognize the problem.  Matches

that are successfully run are deceivingly simple to the outsider - takes tremendous work and

planning and cooperation to run matches month after month.   Tough job.

 

If you've found a good, solid match that you enjoy, you might want to thank the MD    

[stick]

The two clubs I regularly shoot at, one is public and one is private.  The public club has a Range Master on staff who handles the setup and take down.  The private club I shoot at gives free match fees for setup (setup is day before the match) and take down is the responsibility of the squad on their last stage.

[RAP]

My club offers a discount on match fees when you sign up to help set up/tear down and put away the props. We require the stages be torn down by the squads at the end of the match.


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[Edge40]

At my local club set up is totally optional but you get your match fee compd.  As far as tear down goes its pretty much expected that you will stay and help.  It goes real quick.  We have drills and all the necessary tools in the pits before break down starts.  We also have shipping containers at almost every pit so the steel etc. goes right in there.  I would say it doesn't take more than 15 minutes to tear down a stage.  The set up guys do work hard and do a lot but it seems to work out well.  Haven't really had any issues as far as set up or take down goes yet.

[ziebart]

Joe4d is spot on. Adding a convenient fee for those that want to shoot and scoot can work if done correctly. You need to identify people in advance that are paid and those who aren't. Too often you will get some people that will staple a target or 2 and say they setup. 

 

One club I shoot at doesn't want anyone who isn't a club member to RO. Last match it cost them 2 squads worth of shooters. I've also been to matches where people think since they've paid a match fee they don't need to help tape or reset. There was a lack of leadership and a sense of who was really in charge to set expectations and manage range setup and tear down.

[Joe4d]

Match I shot in Hi,,, the MD had the stages posted on the builtin board and plenty of copies,,  Bottom of the WSB had a  prop/ target inventory,,,  generally someone with a truck would grab a copy of one stage, and go to prop house,,, and call out what he needed, others would go to stage and start setting up as props showed up,, I mean really we built really good 5 stage matches in about 30 minutes.,,, cause each stage had 5 or 6 people working.
The MD would come buy,,, proof stuff, move a target a bit,, then say nail it and we would spike it down.
I guess I got spoiled as that was my first exposure to USPSA,,, Think Ion was his name. He also had time to shoot. AND hand do the scores AND had them out by the time we were tore down and sorting brass.
Go from that extreme, to showing up early and litterlly haveing the one copy of the stage diagram ripped out of my hands by a MD, as I was just looking at it and adding up a target count so I could fetch that many. 
At that point I just went to the peanut gallery and hung out... Said guy is famous for ranting and raving about no help.

[2Alphamikenoshoot]

So i think the general consensus is management is key. 

 

Most the ideas here are nothing i havent heard before. I think mostly the issue is time. I have no issue helping. However i dont have time. Active duty still, and running a business. 

What our MD is doing (mentioned above) is charging 25 dollars a shooter. And taking the 5 from that and paying the people that set up. Additionally comping their match fee as well. 
All the matches ive been to in this area everyone helps break down their stage and any additional stages that are left up. 

I think with the time thing, people wouldnt mind paying extra to supplement the range and anyone else helping to set up. 
i think that additionally with more attractive set ups might do it. I know riverbend has 8 stages every month and that thing sells out. Sometimes almost 200 shooters a match. 

 

So I think having 30-40$ match fees arent outrageous. It would help the ranges out and help pay for people to set up. 
What do you guys think? Whats your average match fee in your area? 

[tha1000]

We've had a match  near me go away for a while due to those in charge burning out.  It's coming back next month.

 

My local club discounts entry fee fairly significantly for setup crew.  Get there by 7, check in with the head guy, set up a stage or two, get the discount.  Everybody tears down their last stage.  

 

The match I've shot in Memphis has an interesting approach.  Maybe @MemphisMechanic can add more color to it, but it seems the MD only specifies a number of targets on a bay.  I. E. Stage 1 must have 13 paper, 3 steel, and 4 no shoots.  The rest is left up to the crew on that bay to figure out. 

 

Average in the general area is $20-25.  I'd pay $40 to shoot and scoot.

Edited October 22, 2019 by tha1000

[MemphisMechanic]

4 hours ago, tha1000 said:

The match I've shot in Memphis has an interesting approach.  Maybe @MemphisMechanic can add more color to it, but it seems the MD only specifies a number of targets on a bay.  I. E. Stage 1 must have 13 paper, 3 steel, and 4 no shoots.  The rest is left up to the crew on that bay to figure out.

Close. Except that our stage designs are as freeform as USPSA itself.

 

MD might design one stage, then he’ll head to the scoring shack to begin configuring squads and registering novices. Sometimes not even one stage.

 

There are about six to ten of us who have a fetish for stage design, and who all try to come up with the stage everyone who attends the match liked shooting the most.

 

Right before walkthrough he’ll come by and ask us “how many paper, how many steel, total round count?” to punch the stage into practiscore.

 

He’ll then yell “WALKTHROUGH!!” and the stage designers will each take the lead as our mass of competitors arrives in each bay to describe round count, starting position, etc.

 

For us, it works really well. This does cut way back on people arriving an hour or more before the start to get a walkthrough in, as the stages are still undergoing final tuning. They come to help, or there’s no point being there early.

 

Generally we design stages from 8-10am and shoot from 10:30am til 1:30-2:30, depending on squad size and how hard everyone works etc etc.

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[Learn2count]

Setup, tape, reset, and teardown.  All part of the game.  My brother and i were setting up on our first membership day.  Members are required to participate but not disciplined if they dont.  Peer pressure seems to work fine.  Besides it aids in my stage planning!  Range cleanup day is this weekend.  After lunch participants get a free man on man steel match.  

[tha1000]

12 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Close. Except that our stage designs are as freeform as USPSA itself.

 

MD might design one stage, then he’ll head to the scoring shack to begin configuring squads and registering novices. Sometimes not even one stage.

 

There are about six to ten of us who have a fetish for stage design, and who all try to come up with the stage everyone who attends the match liked shooting the most.

 

Right before walkthrough he’ll come by and ask us “how many paper, how many steel, total round count?” to punch the stage into practiscore.

 

He’ll then yell “WALKTHROUGH!!” and the stage designers will each take the lead as our mass of competitors arrives in each bay to describe round count, starting position, etc.

 

For us, it works really well. This does cut way back on people arriving an hour or more before the start to get a walkthrough in, as the stages are still undergoing final tuning. They come to help, or there’s no point being there early.

 

Generally we design stages from 8-10am and shoot from 10:30am til 1:30-2:30, depending on squad size and how hard everyone works etc etc.

 

 

 

I wasn't sure of the particulars, but do remember being an out of towner who showed up a bit too early and being charged with designing a stage!

[MemphisMechanic]

20 minutes ago, tha1000 said:

 

 

I wasn't sure of the particulars, but do remember being an out of towner who showed up a bit too early and being charged with designing a stage!

Gotcha!!!

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[2Alphamikenoshoot]

Close. Except that our stage designs are as freeform as USPSA itself. [emoji1787]
 
MD might design one stage, then he’ll head to the scoring shack to begin configuring squads and registering novices. Sometimes not even one stage.
 
There are about six to ten of us who have a fetish for stage design, and who all try to come up with the stage everyone who attends the match liked shooting the most.
 
Right before walkthrough he’ll come by and ask us “how many paper, how many steel, total round count?” to punch the stage into practiscore.
 
He’ll then yell “WALKTHROUGH!!” and the stage designers will each take the lead as our mass of competitors arrives in each bay to describe round count, starting position, etc.
 
For us, it works really well. This does cut way back on people arriving an hour or more before the start to get a walkthrough in, as the stages are still undergoing final tuning. They come to help, or there’s no point being there early.
 
Generally we design stages from 8-10am and shoot from 10:30am til 1:30-2:30, depending on squad size and how hard everyone works etc etc.
 

Interesting concept. I like it.


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[Nathanb]

Me too. Just curious how they handle a wsb or similar.  

[motosapiens]

On 11/17/2019 at 6:15 AM, Nathanb said:

Me too. Just curious how they handle a wsb or similar.  

 

we build our stages in 45-60 mins the morning of the match. we have several folks that are always willing to provide a stage, and they direct the other helpers on that stage. Then we just write a simple usb in sharpie on the stage diagram. example:

 

stage: A2 revisited

start toes on x's, handgun loaded and holstered, pcc stock on belt. 

 

we just assume that it's 2 shots per paper unless specified otherwise, and we assume penalties according to the rulebook yadda yadda. 

[Nathanb]

I love the idea of this but I wonder if it would cause me more stress or ease it

[MikeBurgess]

26 minutes ago, Nathanb said:

I love the idea of this but I wonder if it would cause me more stress or ease it

I totally get this sentiment. 

Honestly I like the system and the more in your face its a volunteer sport please help thing, but I am a on time or early, every time, kinda guy and the thought of not starting the shooters meeting at 9:00 sharp would likely kill me.  So for my sanity and those around me we do the bulk of our setup the day before the match that way the morning of the match is as stress free as we can make it.  

 

[Nathanb]

21 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

I totally get this sentiment. 

Honestly I like the system and the more in your face its a volunteer sport please help thing, but I am a on time or early, every time, kinda guy and the thought of not starting the shooters meeting at 9:00 sharp would likely kill me.  So for my sanity and those around me we do the bulk of our setup the day before the match that way the morning of the match is as stress free as we can make it.  

 

This is what we do as well and then I’m there around 630 to start fine tuning stapling painting and prepping everything. I don’t know why i shoot so badly anymore lol

[motosapiens]

17 hours ago, Nathanb said:

This is what we do as well and then I’m there around 630 to start fine tuning stapling painting and prepping everything. I don’t know why i shoot so badly anymore lol

our MD usually shows up about 90 mins before the match starts, and rarely staples, paints or preps much, unless he's bored. We have other people for that stuff. 

 

17 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

the thought of not starting the shooters meeting at 9:00 sharp would likely kill me.  

 

 

We have the meeting and start shooting as soon as setup is done. Usually that's a few minutes earlier than it was when we scheduled a time for it. Match announcements just say when setup starts.

Edited November 19, 2019 by motosapiens

[Chrisperkins027]

One of the clubs I shoot at (two hrs away) has set up the day before the match. Due to this only local shooters have the opportunity to help with design/setup and they are always looking for help. One thing that seems to have helped them and setup is that each time someone shows up to help setup their name is entered into a drawing for a gun. I believe they give a gun away every 6 months but couldn't say for sure.