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Hs-6 with blue bullets


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Hello,

 

As a new reloader with an xl750 and 6 pounds of hs-6 powder on hand. I want to use blue bullets in 9mm using range brass and cci sp primers. 

 

My first IDPA match has me hooked enough to continue IDPA casually and also sign up for my first multigun event in a month from now. 

 

I will be using a Dan Wesson pointman 9 for IDPA and a sig P365 when shooting in BUG class. For Multigun A cz shadow 2 will be used. 

 

From my research here, It sounds like HS-6 prefers to be loaded higher on the ladder of grains and also is better at propelling heavier projectiles such as 147’s. 

 

Your experience is valuable and well appreciated. What insight can you all share with me as I gather my supplies and and set up the xl750 to load ip your recommendations. 

 

Truncated vs round nose?

125, 135, vs 147’s?

HS-6 powder drop weight?

crimp?

overall length?  I have been using 1.111 so far. 

 

I have a full Lee carbide die set with factory crimp installed. 

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I don't have experience with that powder but I would like to add you should run a recipe for a little while( 300-500 rounds) before using it in competition especially in the beginning of reloading. That way you can make sure it's reliable and functions well for you. That being said once you have the process down it should leed to better shooting. Good luck

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M700,

 

Your advice hits home and is why I am hoping to use my ammo for practice during the next month. 

 

I dis use ammo I loaded on a borrowed press for the last event after hundreds of practice rounds. No failures during the event after I made some tweaks dicovered during practice. 

 

I was very concerned about your exact advice. 

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Btw, 

 

titegroup was used for my past reloads. 

 

I did struggle with peeling lead shaving off on some rounds. Still working that out but expect that to be best solved when I decide on one specific projectile to use.

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1 hour ago, 3Dflyer said:

Btw, 

 

titegroup was used for my past reloads. 

 

I did struggle with peeling lead shaving off on some rounds. Still working that out but expect that to be best solved when I decide on one specific projectile to use.

 

Flare the case mouth more. Doesn't matter what the bullet shape is, if it's lubed or coated lead you need to use a generous flare on the case mouth. 

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To achieve a 130 power factor I loaded some sample rounds of 147 blue bullets, round nose, on top of 4.2gr, 4.5 gr, and 4.7 gr of hs-6.  The middle load appears to be about perfect averaging 133 power factor with a SD of 9 using mixed range brass.

 

I did increase the flare to where it really scrapes going into the seating die, but it does enter the die with added pressure.  I am able to remove the flare with the crimping die.  The lead shaving has stopped, but I do see brass residue after the seating die.  I do use some diy dillon lube on the cases.

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Assuming no compensator here.
HS6 is better suited for Major PF, and compensated guns Also seems I recall it being pretty dirty at lighter loads. Plus you are using alot more powder, than you would using the typical faster burning pistol powders.. Also pretty noticeably greater recoil at the same velocity as a faster powder.
Of course the not so good powder you do have is better than a perfect powder you dont have.
HS6 is popular major powder might be able to trade it or sell it to an open shooter. 

At your PF seems most folks like 147's , bullet shape will depend on your gun, Seems nowadays most guns will feed either. I had a 1911 non ramped 9mm that would only feed round nose 100%, my other guns dont matter.
Fas as your crimp, if the bullet falls out its not enough, load a couple and pull the bullets, if the coating is cut you have too much.  Its really case sizing tension holding the bullet, your crimp is just basically removing the bell.
OAL is gonna depend on your gun and barrel.
As you are loading basic factory spec ammo, correct place to find charge weights is a manual

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3 hours ago, 3Dflyer said:

I did increase the flare to where it really scrapes going into the seating die, but it does enter the die with added pressure.  I am able to remove the flare with the crimping die.  The lead shaving has stopped, but I do see brass residue after the seating die.  I do use some diy dillon lube on the cases.

 

Sounds like you went too far on your flare adjustment; it shouldn't be rubbing the die from being too big, and it shouldn't be shaving lead from being too small. It is a fine adjustment, 1/4 turn of the die can go from not enough to way too much. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "diy dillon lube"; if you made it then it's not Dillon brand? 

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On 10/2/2019 at 2:26 PM, Yondering said:

 

Flare the case mouth more. Doesn't matter what the bullet shape is, if it's lubed or coated lead you need to use a generous flare on the case mouth. 

 

I would NOT do a generous flare at all. You just need enough flare for your bullet to slide in w/o having any peeling or shaving going on.  Also use the LEE factory taper crimp and just put a slight taper crimp on your bullets.  For setting the taper I would back your adjustment out, run a bullet up into the die, then turn the adjustment until you feel it touching the bullet. Drop the bullet from the die slightly and turn the adjustment about a half a turn downward then run the bullet back into the die and see what it looks like. Start from there., but that should probably be good enough, maybe a slight bit more.  Remember to put a mark/setting on the adjustment knob so you know where it is set at.

Also you may want to change your powder to tite group, clays or clean shot, something faster burning.

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2 hours ago, bigboy69 said:

 

I would NOT do a generous flare at all. You just need enough flare for your bullet to slide in w/o having any peeling or shaving going on.  Also use the LEE factory taper crimp and just put a slight taper crimp on your bullets.  For setting the taper I would back your adjustment out, run a bullet up into the die, then turn the adjustment until you feel it touching the bullet. Drop the bullet from the die slightly and turn the adjustment about a half a turn downward then run the bullet back into the die and see what it looks like. Start from there., but that should probably be good enough, maybe a slight bit more.  Remember to put a mark/setting on the adjustment knob so you know where it is set at.

Also you may want to change your powder to tite group, clays or clean shot, something faster burning.

Bigboy69,

 

Can you clarify your advice for setting my dies when you suggest putting a bullet in the die, are you talking about the powder drop/flaring die?

 

Please forgive my ignorance. I am trying to visualize your instructions. I appreciate your help. 

 

I must admit that setting up a press and learning the fine details is a challenge. 

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So the power drop flaring die is where you set it to where the bullet can set in the brass and then when you seat it, you should not scrape any coating off of the bullet.

Next step is taper crimp and final step.

So after I seat my bullet to my OAL, overall length, the next station is a LEE factory taper crimp die. I would run your ram all the way up until the die is just touching your shell plate, or a couple thousandths away. For the taper crimp there is a adjustment knob you turn in and out for how much taper crimp you will set.  back it out a couple tuns. Seat a bullet and run it up into the crimp die. Leave it there while your ram is all the way up. Turn the adjustment downward until you feel it touching the bullet, you should feel it hit. Drop the ram down slightly and turn the crimp adjustment in one half turn, then run the bullet back up into the die and you will feel light pressure and you should see a difference.  It's something that you have to play with to find the right amount of taper.  But with a blue bullet you do not want a heavy taper on the bullet.

 

And I'm sure there are videos that are very very helpful on you tube

 

Edited by bigboy69
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6 hours ago, bigboy69 said:

 

I would NOT do a generous flare at all. You just need enough flare for your bullet to slide in w/o having any peeling or shaving going on.  Also use the LEE factory taper crimp and just put a slight taper crimp on your bullets.  For setting the taper I would back your adjustment out, run a bullet up into the die, then turn the adjustment until you feel it touching the bullet. Drop the bullet from the die slightly and turn the adjustment about a half a turn downward then run the bullet back into the die and see what it looks like. Start from there., but that should probably be good enough, maybe a slight bit more.  Remember to put a mark/setting on the adjustment knob so you know where it is set at.

Also you may want to change your powder to tite group, clays or clean shot, something faster burning.

 

We're saying the same thing, and case flaring just isn't that complicated. It needs to be enough to not shave lead, but not too much. The amount of flare needed for lead bullets is more generous than what jacketed bullets need, and it should be more than just barely enough, but it shouldn't be excessive. If the brass is scraping inside the seater die the flare is probably excessive, unless he's got a really tight die. 

 

I really disagree with recommending the Lee factory crimp die though with lead bullets. That die has a carbide ring that sizes down the case; with some thicker brass this causes undersized bullets, which causes gas cutting and lead smoke, and in the worst cases even some leading. Coated bullets are not a magic cure for this; you still need bullets large enough to seal the bore, and the Lee FCD is counter productive for that.  If you're using it with jacketed bullets it's not much of a problem. 

 

If a guy is loading long lead bullets like 147gr that bulge some cases (or get sized down by the internal case taper), it's better to cull those brass headstamps instead of using a band-aid like a Lee FCD. 

Edited by Yondering
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33 minutes ago, bigboy69 said:

When youre using the Lee die, youre only using a slight taper youre hardly hitting it at all, youre just kissing it. Now if you crimp heavey I would say its a no no

 

 

No, the problem isn't the crimp, it's the carbide sizing ring in the Lee factory crimp die that sizes down the bullets. It doesn't matter how little crimp you apply, if you push the loaded round through that carbide ring, some of the bullets get sized down.

 

Now if you just use a standard seating die for crimping, Lee or any other brand, it's fine. Just avoid that "Factory Crimp Die". Too much crimp is also bad, but that's not the problem I described above. 

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1 hour ago, Yondering said:

 

No, the problem isn't the crimp, it's the carbide sizing ring in the Lee factory crimp die that sizes down the bullets. It doesn't matter how little crimp you apply, if you push the loaded round through that carbide ring, some of the bullets get sized down.

 

Now if you just use a standard seating die for crimping, Lee or any other brand, it's fine. Just avoid that "Factory Crimp Die". Too much crimp is also bad, but that's not the problem I described above. 

 

So isnt the "factory crimp die" making your bullet a factory standard measurement or within certain specs for 9mm or whatever caliber you have it for?   

Ive never had a problem with using it. 

Maybe switch to using the U die in the beginning and the Dillon taper crimp at the end?

Edited by bigboy69
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The Lee factory crimp die ensures the OD of your loaded rounds meet minimum specs. That's fine for jacketed bullets; it's not fine for lead bullets (coated or lubed) that need to be oversized. Pull down some of yours from different headstamps and measure the bullet diameters, you'll see what I'm talking about. 

 

This is a pretty well known issue with the Lee FCD for pistol calibers. The bottleneck rifle calibers are a totally different thing since those are a collet die with no sizing ring. 

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