40 cal bullets going in crooked

[dansedgli]

Loading on a 1050 mk7.

 

EGW sizing die, MR Bullet feeder die and Dillon everywhere else.

 

Using only federal once fired brass. 180 grain RN FP coated lead in .401 from a magma mold. Loading to 1.2.

 

Way more than I’d like I am getting crooked bullets bulging out the side of the cases. Most won’t barrel drop because of the bulge.

 

I’ve tried reversing the Dillon seating stem with no change.

 

Will a redding competition seating die work with .401 bullets and fix it?

 

Any other tips?

[Rnlinebacker]

Loading on a 1050 mk7.
 
EGW sizing die, MR Bullet feeder die and Dillon everywhere else.
 
Using only federal once fired brass. 180 grain RN FP coated lead in .401 from a magma mold. Loading to 1.2.
 
Way more than I’d like I am getting crooked bullets bulging out the side of the cases. Most won’t barrel drop because of the bulge.
 
I’ve tried reversing the Dillon seating stem with no change.
 
Will a redding competition seating die work with .401 bullets and fix it?
 
Any other tips?

I have the Redding competition seating die and it's phenomenal. gives me exact seating depths and bullets do align straight

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[candiru]

Loading on a 1050 mk7.
 
EGW sizing die, MR Bullet feeder die and Dillon everywhere else.
 
Using only federal once fired brass. 180 grain RN FP coated lead in .401 from a magma mold. Loading to 1.2.
 
Way more than I’d like I am getting crooked bullets bulging out the side of the cases. Most won’t barrel drop because of the bulge.
...
Any other tips?

Increase your expander depth.
That will allow the bullet to drop in farther.
Might need to reduce the amount of flaring of the case mouth so there’s less wiggling.

[Furrly]

What exactly do you mean by this, any pix you can provide. 

 

Way more than I’d like I am getting crooked bullets bulging out the side of the cases. 

[dansedgli]

Not mine but like this.  

 

 

[Furrly]

Could be your barrel doesn't like that bullet profile at that length. Trying a shorter OAL.. if that doesn't work then it's the. 401 diameter.. My blasters don't like. 401 bullets. 

[dansedgli]

The gun isnt the issue.  

 

Some bullets go into the case crooked.  Those ones dont work.  The straight ones are fine.  

 

Ill adjust the expander to start.  

 

Thanks guys

 

[Furrly]

Eliminate the bullet feeder And see what happens 

[MNshooter]

I have this problem. Changing the seating stem seemed to help - but I see you’ve tried that. I think it may have something to do with the underside die but I’d hate to give that up.

Following to see what you find as a solution.

[fbzero]

In my experience, this is a problem that may pop up with any die combination, but using the U-die and over-sized coated bullets seems to make it occur more frequently.  I have one of the Hornady seating dies that helps align the projectile before applying pressure, which helps some.  Also replacing the hold-down die with a mandrel die seems to help some as well.  I still get a 2-3% failure rate though...haven't found any solution that is 100% without abandoning the U-die, but then neck tension can become an issue...

I'd rather have some case gauge failures than setback issues.  A Lee FCD will "fix" it, but it will also swage down over-sized coated projectiles, so not a great solution IMHO.

Edited September 30, 2019 by fbzero

[bigedp51]

A Lee or EGW undersized die will size the case .002 to .003 smaller in diameter than a standard sizing die. These type dies are for cases fired many times where the brass gets hard and springs back more after sizing. Meaning the undersize dies increase bullet grip by sizing the case smaller in diameter.

 

If you want to use a undersize die I suggest using a Lyman type "M" expander that helps to center the bullet in the case. Below step B expands the case mouth slightly larger than bullet diameter and normally you can start the bullet into the case with just your fingers. If your bullets are larger than step B you can flare the case mouth on step C that is normally used with over sized cast bullets. And your seater plug should also help center the bullet by not allowing the bullet to start tilted into the case. Meaning the seater plug should be a good fit for your bullet shape and many die manufactures will make custom seater plugs for your shape bullet.

 

 

Below on the left a case that just has the case mouth flared and the bullet is tilted. In the center is a case expanded with the type "M" expander and the bullet is centered and started straight into the case.

 

 

Below the Lyman patent expired and Redding now makes type "M" expanders, I have their TiN coated expander for my .40 S&W.

 

 

Below a Lyman type "M" expander for the .223/5.56, this type expander helps center the bullet and greatly reduces bullet runout during seating.

NOTE, the case mouth springs back after expanding on the .226 section to slightly bigger than bullet diameter. And this still allows the bullet to be started by hand without any bullet tilting during seating.

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by bigedp51

[dansedgli]

Thanks, doesn't the Mr bullet feeder die do the same job as an M die? 

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by dansedgli

[candiru]

Thanks, doesn't the Mr bullet feeder die do the same job as an M die? 

No. It’s case mouth flaring.

[AHI]

try adjusting the sedge hold down . it expands the mouth. next adjust the mr bullet feeder expander a little more(powder drop)

both of these do pretty much the same job a M die does.  mr bullet powder funnels are known to wear out so to speak.

Edited October 1, 2019 by AHI

[AHI]

2 hours ago, dansedgli said:

Thanks, doesn't the Mr bullet feeder die do the same job as an M die? 

 

 

 

yes it does and also flairs as well

[dansedgli]

Thanks, the powder funnel is 200 rounds old so it shouldn't be worn out. Ill double check the backup die. 

 

Seems this is a pretty common problem. I was expecting 40 cal to be easier than 9mm to load.  

 

 

[candiru]

Thanks, the powder funnel is 200 rounds old so it shouldn't be worn out. Ill double check the backup die. 

 

Seems this is a pretty common problem. I was expecting 40 cal to be easier than 9mm to load. [emoji53]

 

 

On the 1050, the Dillon expander is in Station 3 backing the swager. That does not increase the case mouth flaring. That’s the die you want to increase the depth of to deepen the expansion so that the larger diameter bullet will fall into the case deeper.

 

The case mouth flaring is done by the bullet feeder die. It will over-expand the case mouth before it will give you any extra depth of case expanding. Overdoing case mouth flaring will make toppling worse.

 

For toppling problems, you want maximum case expansion depth but minimal case mouth flaring.

[MikeyScuba]

I've always had 4-5% of 40's not pass the gauge. Aggravating.

 

I first pre-process my brass (decap and size), I could add the M type expander as I've got unused die space. I use a 650 (at the moment)

 

When I then load I would replace the sizing die with a universal decapping die (just in case)

Then what do I do with the mr bulletfeeder funnel?  Is it possible to activate the powder drop without flaring?

[candiru]

I've always had 4-5% of 40's not pass the gauge. Aggravating.
 
I first pre-process my brass (decap and size), I could add the M type expander as I've got unused die space. I use a 650 (at the moment)
 
When I then load I would replace the sizing die with a universal decapping die (just in case)
Then what do I do with the mr bulletfeeder funnel?  Is it possible to activate the powder drop without flaring?

The big question is: Why are they failing to gauge?

You need at least some bit of flaring with coated. A bit more with .401’s vs .400’s. I’ve done no flaring with MG’s as an experiment but that doesn’t help anything.

In terms of toppling problems, the flaring should be the minimum you need to allow the bullet to drop in cleanly and not get shaved/marred when seating.

Clearly separating the case expansion from the flaring is the best way to approach this. Analogous to seating and crimping separately.

[zzt]

I use Hornady dies with a MBF funnel and feeder, plus a Lee Factory Carbide crimp die for 40sw.  Set the MBF funnel to full depth.  A bell is not necessary.  If you insist on one make it miniscule.  The MBF drops a bullet in straight up and down.  It doesn't move or wiggle when moving to the next station.  I seat the bullet without crimping, then crimp only with the Lee FCCD.  It resizes the case going up and down.  Almost 100% drop into and out of the Shockbottle chamber checkers.  The ones that don't have an extractor cut on the rim.  After I file that off the drop in just fine.  The Lee die is for .400" diameter bullets.  If you use .401" it will size the portion of the bullet in the case to .400".  It doesn't seem to hurt accuracy at all.