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DAA primer pro collator


cvincent
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1 minute ago, doublealpha said:

Because silicon spray has been used on brass for years during reloading (and other lubes), and I have never heard of a situation of “primer contamination” that prevents primers from functioning.

 

it is unfounded, because no evidence has been presented to support it is even a theoretical real issue. Have you ever heard of a case in which a primer failed to work because it was treated in the way I proposed? I have not.

 

You are the only person I have ever heard of suggesting to lube primers. Literally have never heard this before until this thread, by you.

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6 minutes ago, Maximis228 said:

You are the only person I have ever heard of suggesting to lube primers. Literally have never heard this before until this thread, by you.

Agreed, I've never heard of lubing primers. Never read that in published reloading manuals. And since this is the first I've ever heard of anyone putting lube on primers. Why would there be any accounts of silicon contamination when you lube primers? Because we are in uncharted territory with having to lube primers!

 

I would want to see scientific research concluding that silicon spray sprayed on primers doesn't have any long term ill effects on primer performance! 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, doublealpha said:

Because silicon spray has been used on brass for years during reloading (and other lubes), and I have never heard of a situation of “primer contamination” that prevents primers from functioning.

 

it is unfounded, because no evidence has been presented to support it is even a theoretical real issue. Have you ever heard of a case in which a primer failed to work because it was treated in the way I proposed? I have not.

 

Just because you have never heard of it, me neither, doesn't mean to say that it hasn't or won't happen.  There would need to be definitive research into it.  And I mean load 100 rounds and store for a month, then shoot 20, store the remainder for 6-8 months and shoot the remainder.  No, I'm not going to do it because I won't spray my primers with anything.

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41 minutes ago, Maximis228 said:

You are the only person I have ever heard of suggesting to lube primers. Literally have never heard this before until this thread, by you.

 

25 minutes ago, Stymie12000 said:

Agreed, I've never heard of lubing primers. Never read that in published reloading manuals. And since this is the first I've ever heard of anyone putting lube on primers. Why would there be any accounts of silicon contamination when you lube primers? Because we are in uncharted territory with having to lube primers!

 

lol, exactly.

Edited by 4n2t0
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Silicone spray may or may not have a negative effect on the primer compound. The fact of the matter is, that DAA has not performed long term testing for primer compound contamination by using spray silicone to make their product function as desired. Much less testing different brands or versions of silicone spray to determine which one and what quantity is enough or too much. We will see how this turns out as time goes on. If the customers using silicone spray on their primers start complaining about an excessive amount of duds or squibs we will know the contamination answer through real world testing. This situation fallows along the same lines as them not testing the wide range of primer brands and types on the market to ensure the small variations from one to another will still work properly. That or test continually using "Fresh" primers to see how their "Gunk" it would impact their products functionality. Lastly you have the continual "MacGyver Style" work around suggestions to get the product to work as claimed.

 

If customers are willing to purchase this product and jump through all of the adjustment and work around hoops to make it work, more power to them. Some people enjoy being early adopters of new products because they know they will be the Guinea Pigs to find all of the issues with the product. But this product is proving not to be a "Pull it out of the box, plug it in, and use it with zero issues" scenario. Potential buyers of this product should know this up front before they shell out their hard earned cash for it.

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So far the PP has been working really well for me.  I use Winchester primers, which it seems are the worst to try to load in filler systems (Vibraprime, DAA Primer Pro, etc.).  I did need to swap in the V2 disk (no shims), and have had zero flipped primers.  I lubed everything with dry silicone spray before I even started, about 1500 primers in, and so far no issues.

To expand on Saul's idea of treating the primers with silicone spray, I believe I have an alternate way of doing this that will alleviate the concerns about contaminated primers mentioned above.  The Winchester primers are all neatly placed in the tray with the striking area up, which is probably what needs the lube.  What I tried and seems to work very well is to spray a cleaning patch with silicone and gently wipe the primers in the primer tray.  That way only the surface gets lubed.  Let them dry for a short time and then dump them in the PP.  On rare occasions there may be one or two primers that are flipped in the tray, if you don't open it carefully, but they are easy to flip back with your fingernail before you wipe them.  This will eliminate any possibility of the silicone getting on the compound side of the primers.  I loaded up 200 this way and it filled the tube under 90 seconds.

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Why not completely submerge about 20 primers in silicon spray in a container for a week and then load and shoot them all?

 

If the silicon has no impact at all, they should all go bang right?

 

If they don't, then you'll need to prove out how much is too much and test long term storage limits.

Edited by Intheshaw1
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There is this one dude who has videos on Facebook absolutely drenching a primer with penetrating oil, it still works. It was not soaked in oil for days however. He also has a video of depriming a live backwards primer like 12 times, absolutely banging the hell out of a lee single stage. Never goes off. Till it’s in a gun.

 

 

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back in the early 90s I had a flood at my old house, 100,000 primers were submerged for 2 days in pool water (above ground pool burst and decided my basement room was the best place to relocate to). There was no way I was gonna just throw out that many primers, so I laid them all out and dried them all under a fan. The only ones that didn't work were the ones that had had the priming compound washed out of them, about 1,000 of the first 5,000 that I loaded. It was a frustrating time messing around with that crap. I didn't get to shoot all 100,000 of the primers as a second flood, this time dirty ditch water, and that destroyed the remaining primers, though I did dry them and try a number of them. The primers were completely coated in mud and crap and rinsing them just washed out the compound. So, a little silicone lube doesn't freak me out in the least, but I can understand the reluctance to trust the lube to not contaminate things. I would imagine a number of people are testing that as we speak. 

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HI All,

My  point is that we have all been lubing cases prior to reloading them for decades. Some use case lube, others  use silicon or similar for this process.

You must agree that some small amounts of this case treatment enters into the primer pocket, right? (assuming deprimed brass of course).

So – my claim is that we have ALREADY been applying a little silicone to primers – without any ill affect. I therefore I don’t see what the concern is about.

I don’t think a theoretical concern can be considered valid (in other words, it remains unfounded) until there is some case study to prove it.

 

I am pleased to read there are no new concerns and all those using a V2 disk and lubing either their primers or  PP parts are getting good performance.

 

In reply to some other comment: If we were aware earlier regarding the sticky primer issue – we would have included this point and suggestion for treating primers or PP parts in all initial videos/ material. This was not being hid from anyone, just was not noticed for reasons already detailed.

 

Happy reloading everyone.

Saul

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If you disagree with a point of view you can post your reasons why. You may not be rude. I've had to clean up some of the posts. I would hate to lock this thread because there are a lot of people who want this product to work. If you can't help yourself and just have to be rude, please confine it to a private message. 

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I wasn't being rude, just factual.

 

Yes, while I won't be buying the unit and not for any of the negative reasons listed, I would like to see success, as I stated earlier.

 

Saul has made a statement that he cannot back up with facts about using silicone spray on primers, only that he loaded some and shot them immediately.

 

I'm playing Devils advocate.

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So I contacted Winchester about using silicone spray on their primers. 

 

This is their response. I removed my info for obvious reasons.

 

Winchester Customer Support

 

Winchester Ammunition

Customer: XXXXXXXXXXX

 

Subject:

Submission Date: 2/6/2020 2:18:54 PM

Question: Hi, I have a question concerning your primers. Recently I purchased a new to market primer collator. It was working less than desired. The manufacturer recommends to spray your primers with silicone spray to "lube" your primers. Do you recommend spraying primers with silicone spray? Is it safe for your primers? Can it affect the performance of your primers? 

 

Answer:

We do not reccomend using any liquid or substance on any of our ammunition products.

 
 
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mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmandrillapp.com%2Ftrack%2Fopen.php%3Fu%3D31041381%26id%3D74ce43ec88fc49d5b0e3fd010f29792c&t=1581001279&ymreqid=e3389eeb-0adb-8bbe-221c-c90020016d00&sig=vHVOm7oi6CpMRzJMD_WKYA--~CSo Winchester does not recommend "lubing" primes.

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Stymie1200 - I never recommend spraying the primers with anything. I recommed spraying the box with silicone and then shaking the primers around in that box.

I believe I also showed that clearly in the video posted.

I think its great you reached out to Winchester for comment, but perhaps it would be more productive if you send them the link to the video I posted, so they could comment on what is actually proposed.

Would they recommend putting anything on their primers? I am sure not. But the question that should be put to them is “do you think doing as shown in this video would lead to any issues with the primers function?”

have a good one

saul

Edited by doublealpha
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6 minutes ago, doublealpha said:

Stymie1200 - I never recommend spraying the primers with anything. I recommed spraying the box with silicone and then shaking the primers around in that box.

I believe I also showed that clearly in the video posted.

have a good one

saul

I dont understand how spraying into a box, then transferring the silicone onto the primers is any different.  And Winchester said "substance of any on our ammunition products". 

 

I believe silicone would fall under "substance of any" whether it be via directly sprayed or with your box method. And if silicone doesn't get applied to the primers via the box, then why do they slide better through your machine?

 

I'm just trying to understand how your (DAA) saying its recommends  to apply silicone to primers, when the manufacturer advises against it.

 

like everyone else, I want this product to work. It would be a great asset in my reloading room. However, IMO the machine needs to work without going against what the manufacturer recommends. 

 

I wish you the best of luck. 

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This is getting annoying reading all of this back and forth so I just want to add my experience bc I love this product and don’t want all of this taking away from the good parts.

I ended up experiencing primer slow down with CCI primers after about 1,200. I now only use Federal but still had some slow down. I scratched my output slide as described in the video and sprayed pledge on a Q tip and rubbed the slide and inside the collator tray with the original V1 tray. That has COMPLETELY solved my issue.

I don’t even think the whole silicon spray is even necessary as the pledge trick solved my issues immediately. We are going down this rabbit hole into the silicon BS and it’s not even needed in most applications. I am a high volume loader and this has been a valuable addition to my bench. I have zero skin in the game here, but get annoyed when I have friends reading these posts and spreading rumors around local club that “oh man they are having tons of issues why did you buy that” and I just don’t see that to be the case at all. Our community runs too far with these little issues and makes them as if they are the rule rather than the exception. Granted, I don’t use Winchester but can’t see how the pledge trick wouldn’t solve that.

The silicon method seems dumb and unnecessary. Despite my defense of the product i agree with the guys on here saying you can’t claim there is no issues with this method, the same as they can’t claim there is issues. Saul, you should just bail out of defending that and go back to the first fix unless it wasn’t working for lots of people. I highly recommend anyone give this a try and use the pledge on the ramp if it isn’t working for you.


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5 minutes ago, hurley326 said:

This is getting annoying reading all of this back and forth so I just want to add my experience bc I love this product and don’t want all of this taking away from the good parts.

I ended up experiencing primer slow down with CCI primers after about 1,200. I now only use Federal but still had some slow down. I scratched my output slide as described in the video and sprayed pledge on a Q tip and rubbed the slide and inside the collator tray with the original V1 tray. That has COMPLETELY solved my issue.

I don’t even think the whole silicon spray is even necessary as the pledge trick solved my issues immediately. We are going down this rabbit hole into the silicon BS and it’s not even needed in most applications. I am a high volume loader and this has been a valuable addition to my bench. I have zero skin in the game here, but get annoyed when I have friends reading these posts and spreading rumors around local club that “oh man they are having tons of issues why did you buy that” and I just don’t see that to be the case at all. Our community runs too far with these little issues and makes them as if they are the rule rather than the exception. Granted, I don’t use Winchester but can’t see how the pledge trick wouldn’t solve that.

The silicon method seems dumb and unnecessary. Despite my defense of the product i agree with the guys on here saying you can’t claim there is no issues with this method, the same as they can’t claim there is issues. Saul, you should just bail out of defending that and go back to the first fix unless it wasn’t working for lots of people. I highly recommend anyone give this a try and use the pledge on the ramp if it isn’t working for you.


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The degree of tinkering really depends on what brand primer you use. From what I’ve read here, CCI and Federal work with minimal fuss in the PP. Its “dirtier” primers like Winchester that give it problems. Winchester absolutely will not run without substantial tinkering. 
 

I’ve loaded about 15k with Winchester and I have it down pretty well now. The main selling point to me is zero upside down primers. And for that I will put up with some of the hassle. Now that I have it running it’s really not that bad. But I can see how most people, that pay for a product expect it to work out of that box, and that is not unreasonable. 

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19 minutes ago, 4n2t0 said:

 

You mean this one right?

 

 


 

No. His point about there being significant value to a product that consistently deliver primers in the proper direction every time. That makes ironing out whatever kinks worthwhile.

 

 

I think it’s a given that when you buy something you expect it to work, but that’s the risk of being an early adopter for anything. I can bare with the company for a certain amount of time as long as they actively try to fix the problem which they have with the upgraded ramp and v2 Disc and all of these support videos. Of course it’s annoying you have to do any of that but at the end of the day, for me and my experience, I am not inconvenienced by having to one time every 5,000 primers to rub a tiny bit of pledge on my output ramp that takes me 2 seconds. none of these proposed methods, even the stupid silicon in a box method are major undertakings like your having to rebuild an engine or something like that. 
 

The concerns are absolutely valid, but it should be known that there are people who this is working very well for on the other side of that coin. It’s not a total lemon.

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If it works with CCI, I’d be willing to buy one.

 

CCIs are so much more consistently *round* than winchester and are usually the cheapest option available amongst the major players in the USA.

 

Take the hit in the form of 4 to 6 ounces of extra pull weight in your hammer-fired production or CO gun, and set it up to eat anything. I’ve never understood the desire to have the lightest  possible trigger and wind up with a picky little princess of a firearm.

 

My experience with the finicky Vibraprime led me to quickly stop buying federals and Winchesters, when cheaper CCIs glide right through it. That obviously colors my thinking when it comes to this more complicated machine.

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Hurley236> You are only 5K in on your experience with that product. That is a very small functionality frequency exposure to give the product a validating thumbs up. Lets see if your stance is the same 50K, 100K or 250K in.

 

Do you have one? Reason is, I hear what your saying but I can actually confidently say my sample size is more than enough. There is literally only 2 plastic surfaces that have the ability to be “gunked up” and those are EASILY AND QUICKLY wiped with a little pledge. The fact the surface where the primers come in contact with is so simple as a piece of plastic, it allows me to say It doesn’t matter if it’s 5,000 or 50,000. In 5,000 primers I have had to do one quick application which took me only 30 seconds if that.

 

The only part you have a valid point about is I’m using cci and federal. If I was using Winchester then perhaps it would need to be cleaned more. But we also clean our guns when we shoot them around 5,000 rounds or at the very list give them a quick rub down or spray with oil. Maybe with Winchester you might have to do it every 2,500 idunno but I just don’t see it as a huge pain in the ass. Not saying this is you, but most of the people complaining are speculating rather than using it real world.

 

 

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  • jhgtyre changed the title to DAA primer pro collator

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