Strange squib...ideas?

[BillR1]

My load is a 147gr Blue Bullet with 3.2gr Alliant Sport Pistol at 1.135". 

I had a squib tonight, but I'm still not sure what happened. There was no discernible difference in the sound or recoil of the shot. This was confirmed by the SO that was timing me. My first indication of a problem is the slide was out of battery. The bullet was STUCK about an 1/8" forward of the chamber. My nylon squib rod wouldn't budge it. I had to use a solid brass rod and some good whacks with a hammer to drive it out of the barrel!

This also happened a few weeks ago. The symptoms, location, and the tightness of the squib in the barrel were exactly the same.

Any ideas? I wet-tumble and use a dryer before the case lube. Too much lube?

[223to45]

Did you happen to measure the bullets that stuck. Maybe some weird size??



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[Sandbagger123]

sounds like you may have a few over length rounds and they are getting stuck in lands and not allowing it to go into battery. when you eject the case is there powder all over?  

[Hi-Power Jack]

How do you lube ?   If you spray lube into the case and then

start reloading, you can have a problem.   Better to spray

lube onto a piece of cloth or paper, put that into a plastic bag

and then add the brass - shake and then let dry for a while.

 

What's strange is that you and the RO both heard the last shot

go BANG, not pop or fizzle.   If it went BANG, the bullet should

have gone out the barrel.  ???

[m700]

Atte you sure the pop want from previous round and the follow up round didn't Lodge into the land. One the round was it was the primer struck?

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[BillR1]

All of the ejected brass had good primer hits...using CCI SPPs. The gun cycled, as it loaded the next round. Fortunately in both cases, the bullet was stuck close to the chamber and prevented the next round from seating. I didn't notices any unburned powder on the gun. 

 

The removed bullet was somewhat blackened on the sides, but that could've been from the barrel.(right?) 

I've assisted shooters with squibs many times, and my nylon rod usually removes the bullet easily from the barrel. This bullet was almost "welded" in there. It was seriously tough to pound out.

 

I've always lubed by spreading the brass out on a towel and spraying them, then shaking them all together in the hanging towel. I'm using Brass Juice for lube. After lubing, the brass goes into a gallon ziplock bag for storage. They may not get loaded for several weeks as I rotate the brass.

 

Heres another possible clue. Both of these incidents happened since June when I got my new 650. I've loaded close to 100K rounds with my old 550 using all types and calibers of bullets and never had a squib. But it's the same powder measure on both machines? 

 

Thanks for all of the help!!

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by BillR1

[124gr9mm]

Definitely strange.

I don't lube pistol brass, so I have no idea if that could be the culprit.

 

Are you using the same bullets that you always have?  It almost sounds like you got an oversized bullet stuck in the barrel.

 

Did you measure the squibs against the rest of the stock you have?

 

Could your seating/crimp die be damaged and deforming your bullets?

[Hi-Power Jack]

I had a piece break on my SDB a couple years ago, and didn't realize it broke.

 

Everything seemed to be working properly,  BUT,  it wasn't.

 

Wasn't always dropping powder into the cases - not all the time, just sometimes.

 

I ended up with 250 rounds of ammo with some powder and some no powder.

 

The solution:  Got a light attachment, and now I LOOK into every case, every

time, before I seat a bullet, for every round.   

 

Sounds to me like you had very little powder in that case.    

 

BUT, seems strange that it cycled a new round into the chamber ???

[zzt]

I've had several squibs.  One, on an Open gun sounded just like every other shot.  The only way I knew there was a squib was I could not chamber a fresh round.  Even the RO said that was the loudest squib he'd ever heard.  So it was likely a light powder drop.

 

All the other squibs went poof, so both I and the RO knew it right away.  They were primer only squibs and easy to remove.  I now have a light and look to see powder in every case before the bullet is dropped.

 

With the Dillon powder measure, the powder would occasionally bridge and not drop the entire charge.  The measure on the LnL I now use is much better in that regard.

Edited September 17, 2019 by zzt

[nso123]

Do you think it might have gone bang due to being slightly out of battery due to an excessive OAL?  That probably would allow things to cycle and pick up the next round.

[dillon]

It sounds like a light powder charge. A primer alone won't cycle the slide, and the carbon on the bullet was deposited by something. A properly functioning disconnector should prevent the firearm from discharging out of battery. If your running a light recoil spring, it is conceivable that the friction of the bullet entering the barrel, combined with the light powder charge, made is easier for the energy to cycle the slide, ejecting the fired case and feeding another round, instead of pushing the bullet further down the barrel.  Rare, but not the first time I've heard of it.

[Guy Neill]

Quote

 

If the base of the bullet was blackened, it was a primer only BIB squib.  If there were any powder, the base of the bullet would have been clean.

 

A primer alone will not cycle the slide.

 

Guy.

[HesedTech]

We all know squibs only happen because there wasn’t enough gas pressure behind the bullet to push it down the barrel. The conclusions are, light or no powder load, or brass case failure porting gas out the ejection port or worse.  Check all your processes, make sure the650 powder drop return rod is correctly set up and maybe clean the powder system completely.

 

The 650 probably isn’t the problem. 
 

Let us know what you find. 

[zzt]

2 hours ago, dillon said:

A primer alone won't cycle the slide

 

1 hour ago, Guy Neill said:

A primer alone will not cycle the slide.

 

That is incorrect gentlemen.  A primer only squib will cycle the slide in my 2011 Open gun with a 7 lb. spring and a lightened slide.  It will also cycle my CZ TS with a 12 lb. spring.  It will not cycle my 1911 45 with unlightened slide and 14 lb. spring.

[Guy Neill]

It would be interesting to see a video of a primer only cycling the gun.

 

My experience is with the stock 45 1911.  It will not cycle the gun (1911) when stock.

 

Guy

 

 

 

[Hi-Power Jack]

1 hour ago, zzt said:

 

 A primer only squib will cycle the slide in my 2011 Open gun with a 7 lb. spring and a lightened slide.

 

I'm surprised.

 

How light is that slide ?   Sounds like you've polished the

dickens out of that baby.

[looking4reloadingdeals]

I had a primer only squib that I don’t even think started to cycle the action on a Glock 34 with 11lb recoil spring. It was first ever squib so I didn’t know what happened and I didn’t figure it out until I tried to rack a new round into the gun and it wouldn’t go into battery. I would also be surprised to see a primer only squib cycle a slide, and would be really interested to see if you didn’t mind doing it/ had a video of it somehow


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[stick]

Sounds like a light powder charge.  On your 650 do you use the powder check?  I've never used Sport pistol.  How does it meter in the 650 and what is the case volume?

 

Need some insight on your setup.  What do you run in each station on the 650?  Do you look at the charge in station 3?  Lights etc...

[zzt]

52 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

I'm surprised.

 

How light is that slide ?   Sounds like you've polished the

dickens out of that baby.

 

10.1 oz. polished an chromed (frame also).  On my last 2011 build I made the slide to frame fit too tight and had problems.  I've polished and burnished and it runs great now,  but I still cannot get it to cycle with anything less than 130PF ammo.  So there is no way that slide would cycle on primer only squib.

[BillR1]

I just did an experiment. With a primer-only cartridge loaded to the same OAL, the slide never even moved. I had a dummy round in the mag to see if it would load it. The sound was also obviously different, as I would expect. The bullet was in almost the same spot in the barrel though.

So on my squibs, there was enough powder to cycle the slide and make a near-normal sound, but not enough to push the bullets very far. Interesting...

[BillR1]

3 hours ago, stick said:

Sounds like a light powder charge.  On your 650 do you use the powder check?  I've never used Sport pistol.  How does it meter in the 650 and what is the case volume?

 

Need some insight on your setup.  What do you run in each station on the 650?  Do you look at the charge in station 3?  Lights etc...

I do use a powder check, and have since the first squib happened. I'm not positive these rounds were not loaded before that though.

My tool head uses all Lee dies, except for the seating die which is a Redding.

Sport Pistol meters VERY well. It's a lot finer than Titegroup or Clays for sure. 3.2gr is about 1/2 of the case, maybe slightly less. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

16 hours ago, zzt said:

 

 

A primer only squib will cycle the slide in my 2011 Open gun with a 7 lb. spring and a lightened slide.

 

13 hours ago, zzt said:

there is no way that slide would cycle on primer only squib.

 

ZZT, are you talking about two different guns here ?   One will cycle with only a primer, and the other will not cycle with only a primer ?

[zzt]

2 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

 

ZZT, are you talking about two different guns here ?   One will cycle with only a primer, and the other will not cycle with only a primer ?

 

Yes.  I have three Open guns remaining.  The one that would cycle on a primer squib has been sold.  Two of the remaining will not cycle on anything less than 130 and 135PF respectively, so they couldn't cycle on a primer only squib.  I've never had a squib in the third, so I don't know what it would do.

[looking4reloadingdeals]

These cases are the reason I check all my brass before running it. I HATE smashing a primer on a crimped case


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[Yondering]

I couldn't find it specified in the thread - did this squib happen in a blowback carbine by any chance? Those can cycle with squibs and stuck bullets, and can be pretty loud about it too. I have a section of barrel from a Beretta Storm carbine with 7-8 bullets in it; someone kept firing and the gun kept cycling until it blew up.