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DKorn

Bumps to Open - Magazine from Table

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20 minutes ago, Southpaw said:

 

I don't get it. You're saying an Open shooter can carry mags in a holster since there's no rule against it. So then why can't a SS shooter do the same since holster is behind his hip bone? 5.2.4 applies to all divisions it would seem. (Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand your ruling)

 

20 minutes ago, Southpaw said:

 

I don't get it. You're saying an Open shooter can carry mags in a holster since there's no rule against it. So then why can't a SS shooter do the same since holster is behind his hip bone? 5.2.4 applies to all divisions it would seem. (Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand your ruling)

 

You may be right, but I need DNROI to tell me I am wrong. With all due respect to this forum or any other forum, he is the only voice that matters. I didn't uphold this call operating in a vacuum. Despite statements here to the contrary, I'm not looking for ways to punish shooters, but I will enforce the rules as I understand them, until told otherwise by DNROI.

Edited by Gary Stevens

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Thanks Gary. I certainly don't think you're out to get anyone. All I have to go by is the wording in the rulebook, which had me confused with the situations described in this thread. 

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15 minutes ago, Southpaw said:

Thanks Gary. I certainly don't think you're out to get anyone. All I have to go by is the wording in the rulebook, which had me confused with the situations described in this thread. 

 

USPSA is most often a constant state of confusion.👍

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43 minutes ago, Gary Stevens said:

 

USPSA is most often a constant state of confusion.👍

 

And this is why i started this thread - because I was confused by exactly how the rules supported these two calls and wanted to see what other people thought. 

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15 minutes ago, DKorn said:

 

And this is why i started this thread - because I was confused by exactly how the rules supported these two calls and wanted to see what other people thought. 

That's ok. That's why I get paid the big bucks......wait a minute.

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5 hours ago, Gary Stevens said:

 

Despite statements here to the contrary, I'm not looking for ways to punish shooters, 

I'm only busting on Sarge when I say stuff like that, lol.  I have the greatest respect for you and your contributions to the sport and I appreciate your willingness to share your experience in these discussions. It just goes to show you that even the most experienced and knowledgeable people can still come to differing conclusions based on the same data and the same rules.

 

One good takeaway from this is to ask the RO if it's ok to put mags in your holster (or wherever else you have in mind). Just don't even do stuff that you don't *know* is within the rules.

Edited by motosapiens

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3 hours ago, Gary Stevens said:

That's ok. That's why I get paid the big bucks......wait a minute.

 

You get paid triple what I do, right?

 

ROs are volunteers. CROs get double that, and RMs get triple. At least that’s how I’ve heard it works. 🤣

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48 minutes ago, DKorn said:

 

You get paid triple what I do, right?

 

ROs are volunteers. CROs get double that, and RMs get triple. At least that’s how I’ve heard it works. 🤣

Correct. I make twice as much as Gary.  The multiplication property of zero unconfuses USPSA.  🤣

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On 9/12/2019 at 11:25 AM, Gary Stevens said:

5.2.4.1 allows these shooters to also carry a load magazine or unload magazine in the front pocket as long as it is used for specific purposes.

 

 

The rule you cite describes an example of when it’s permissible to store a magazine outside of the requirement in the appendix. However, e.g., means for example. It does not mean it is the only permissible act. The rule never says that the magazine can ONLY be used for specific purposes. The rule provides an example, but a singular example should not be considered to the exclusion of any other situations. 

 

More specifically, the rule explicitly permits carrying magazines in a forward pocket as long as it is not removed, which as far as I understand, the shooter did not do. 

 

As I read the rule, which I believe is very straight forward in plain language, storing the mag, which is not removed during the COF, is absolutely a permissible act and should not have had any actions against the shooter because the shooter violated no rule. 

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4 hours ago, IL-SIG said:

 

The rule you cite describes an example of when it’s permissible to store a magazine outside of the requirement in the appendix. However, e.g., means for example. It does not mean it is the only permissible act. The rule never says that the magazine can ONLY be used for specific purposes. The rule provides an example, but a singular example should not be considered to the exclusion of any other situations. 

 

More specifically, the rule explicitly permits carrying magazines in a forward pocket as long as it is not removed, which as far as I understand, the shooter did not do. 

 

As I read the rule, which I believe is very straight forward in plain language, storing the mag, which is not removed during the COF, is absolutely a permissible act and should not have had any actions against the shooter because the shooter violated no rule. 

Dan not trying to be cute, but if you were DNROI this would be a done deal. However, he is the only voice that counts.

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On 9/12/2019 at 3:48 PM, MikeBurgess said:

This is one of those stupid (most likely) untended consequences that got "fixed" by making more rules that are even dumber for no reason. Yes per the rules the way they got written the bumps were correct, but I bet that nobody involved in writing them ever thought about these outcomes.

 

 

On 9/12/2019 at 3:51 PM, Gary Stevens said:

 

I totally agree and advocated for exactly that. It was not accepted though. To me it is part of freestyle.

 

I wanted to just say something coming from a very unregulated shooting competition, Precision Rifle Series. There, the rules (if any) are applied based on who knows who and there is very limited recourse for a novice or even intermediate shooter. I can cite many instances in which gamers were allowed certain procedures where others were not (rest rifle here, carry this here, shoot from there, etc.). I became very frustrated with the completely unleveled playing field and left the sport. "Gamers" (I call them "cheaters") HATE rules. Gamers therefore have not descended on this fine sport and I am happy for it. Sure, there will be weird rules, but I for one love them. They may get applied wrong in certain situations, but really, very few people are actually getting paid here. It is so wonderful there are Range Officers and higher ups who volunteer so much time to this sport. 

 

For that, I say thank you. Let's keep these questions coming. They are helping me learn the rules as I just recently obtained my certification 4 months ago.  

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2 hours ago, Gary Stevens said:

Dan not trying to be cute, but if you were DNROI this would be a done deal. However, he is the only voice that counts.

 

Gary - I understand and was only pitching in my $.02.  

 

To your point, I agree and think it’s very important that we get a clear answer from DNROI so that we can all apply the rules in a fair an equitable manner.  Due to the fact that there are so many opinions floating around, a clear response in the very near future would be helpful for future matches that are on the schedule.

 

I truly believe that all range officials at all levels want to be fair and apply the rules in a fair way that is consistent across the board.  

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I wanted to just say something coming from a very unregulated shooting competition, Precision Rifle Series. There, the rules (if any) are applied based on who knows who and there is very limited recourse for a novice or even intermediate shooter. I can cite many instances in which gamers were allowed certain procedures where others were not (rest rifle here, carry this here, shoot from there, etc.). I became very frustrated with the completely unleveled playing field and left the sport. "Gamers" (I call them "cheaters") HATE rules. Gamers therefore have not descended on this fine sport and I am happy for it. Sure, there will be weird rules, but I for one love them. They may get applied wrong in certain situations, but really, very few people are actually getting paid here. It is so wonderful there are Range Officers and higher ups who volunteer so much time to this sport. 
 
For that, I say thank you. Let's keep these questions coming. They are helping me learn the rules as I just recently obtained my certification 4 months ago.  
I'll jump in on this one as I think gamers are not cheaters and cheaters are just that, cheaters. Gamers "game" the rules but work within then as the edges, trying to eek out every advantage but stay legal.

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51 minutes ago, broadside72 said:
6 hours ago, Nevadazielmeister said:
 
I wanted to just say something coming from a very unregulated shooting competition, Precision Rifle Series. There, the rules (if any) are applied based on who knows who and there is very limited recourse for a novice or even intermediate shooter. I can cite many instances in which gamers were allowed certain procedures where others were not (rest rifle here, carry this here, shoot from there, etc.). I became very frustrated with the completely unleveled playing field and left the sport. "Gamers" (I call them "cheaters") HATE rules. Gamers therefore have not descended on this fine sport and I am happy for it. Sure, there will be weird rules, but I for one love them. They may get applied wrong in certain situations, but really, very few people are actually getting paid here. It is so wonderful there are Range Officers and higher ups who volunteer so much time to this sport. 
 
For that, I say thank you. Let's keep these questions coming. They are helping me learn the rules as I just recently obtained my certification 4 months ago.  

I'll jump in on this one as I think gamers are not cheaters and cheaters are just that, cheaters. Gamers "game" the rules but work within then as the edges, trying to eek out every advantage but stay legal.

 

Truth. 

 

Remember folks, USPSA happens to be a Game. 

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